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Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

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Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#111

Post by dep_b »

vbezhenar wrote: post #101
novok wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Objective-C apps, it used to be even better, in startup and in app size. I think you can still get similar app size if you make a pure Obj-C app today.

What's the status of Objective C language today? Is it fully supported forever or is it in legacy status waiting for its support to be dropped in the future?

It will be fully supported probably forever since Apple wrote a ton of their own systems in it and it has perfect integration with C and C++. The language is basically done at this point, any new features will probably be aimed at language interop.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#112

Post by dep_b »

mrtksn wrote: post #84
onion2k wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember the last time I installed an app that was only 20MB. Even the most simple things weigh in at 100MB and up these days. The most ridiculous example I've seen lately is the mobile version of the Gwent card game from the Witcher game series. It's 2.7GB. For a card game.

The unnecessarily large apps probably use cross-platform tools that ship their runtime with each installation, losing out on Apple's optimizations or they have multiple ad tracking or 3rd party UI libraries. I am not an expert in mobile dev by any means since I switched from web to native mobile development barely a year ago but when I was still resisting to learn the native way of doing things I was exploring the cr…

I think adding the Facebook SDK added something like 40-120MB to my app if memory serves me correct. One more reason I always use the mobile web version in a WebView every time I can get away with it. It has all of these dependencies like Bolts and what not. All to display 2-3 screens worth of login.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#113

Post by Malcx »

mrtksn wrote: post #84
onion2k wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember the last time I installed an app that was only 20MB. Even the most simple things weigh in at 100MB and up these days. The most ridiculous example I've seen lately is the mobile version of the Gwent card game from the Witcher game series. It's 2.7GB. For a card game.

The unnecessarily large apps probably use cross-platform tools that ship their runtime with each installation, losing out on Apple's optimizations or they have multiple ad tracking or 3rd party UI libraries. I am not an expert in mobile dev by any means since I switched from web to native mobile development barely a year ago but when I was still resisting to learn the native way of doing things I was exploring the cr…

Hmm it might be worth you checking out capacitor, I've shipped a couple of full featured fairly complex apps under 5mb that use the same codebase for iOS and android.

I steered clear of ionic and angular developing my own framework and the apps had less than 1mb of assets bundled with them.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#114

Post by kkarakk »

Every app i've seen use this uses it to implement a "microsite". for eg nytimes made an instant app for the crossword puzzle on android... except if i'm into crossword puzzles i'll download the app anyways,why the hell would i download the instant app everytime unless it was part of my "flow" ie read the new york times paper and then the crossword is sent to my phone automatically or something? except i'd be reading the paper on my phone as well?

the usecase for these kinds of things is so muddled and unclear i don't understand the point...

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#115

Post by scarface74 »

saagarjha wrote: post #95
scarface74 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tell me again why I would want a slower, less feature fill web app? Also, what makes you think I would put my credit card info on a random website?

> Also, what makes you think I would put my credit card info on a random website? Do you not buy things online?

Yes from Amazon and other trusted places. I’ve done in app purchases for games (to remove ads) for a lot of companies. I wouldn’t do it if they had their own payments.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#116

Post by tinus_hn »

fxtentacle wrote: post #76
mrtksn wrote: post #68

I have an app written in Swift and weights between 8-20Mb(depending on device and iOS version), which is not too far of from a typical website these days and the startup times are phenomenal(between 250-500ms, depending on the devıce). Writing in Swift is a delight and this is the feature I was dreaming about because having the user to install the App is not easy these days(100 impressions on Appstore Search would ge…

It's hard to imagine, but some DOS apps had I agree that your app is small and fast compared to what others are putting out there, but compared to what software engineering could do if people cared, this is still bloated and slow.

A large part of the bloat is from graphics assets. The icon for most apps is many times larger than these old programs and you can’t do much about that. It’s one thing people don’t realize that happens when you get these hidpi screens.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#117

Post by fauigerzigerk »

dahfizz wrote: post #53
diggan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you provide similar feedback when that was announced? I did not, as I'm a lot more bored at this point in time and also have a lot of more free time. But I do feel the same about both of the platforms movement towards "instant apps" that could have been equally solved by making web apps work better on respective platforms, instead of trying to solve the same problem again.

Web apps have always sucked and always will suck. With decades of development and thousands of frameworks, it still sucks. Instant apps take the one advantage web apps have (you don't have to install them) and brings that to the native platform. I think that makes a ton of sense, vs "just fixing" something that people have been trying to fix for decades. How often do you go to uber.com to call an uber? If you want to…

I'm using a ton of apps that have Web and native options and in most cases I prefer the Web version. I'm sure others feel differently and that's fine.

But you're forgetting two major advantages of Web apps: They are cross platform und neither users nor publishers need any permissions from some oligopolist middleman.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#118

Post by dahfizz »

nicoburns wrote: post #106
dahfizz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web apps have always sucked and always will suck. With decades of development and thousands of frameworks, it still sucks. Instant apps take the one advantage web apps have (you don't have to install them) and brings that to the native platform. I think that makes a ton of sense, vs "just fixing" something that people have been trying to fix for decades. How often do you go to uber.com to call an uber? If you want to…

I don't use uber.com, but I prefer facebook.com to the facebook app. Web can absolutely be a better experience if the effort is put in to make it one.

The web is fantastic for websites. Facebook is much closer to a regular website than to an app. It's just content that you scroll through.

And, even so, the Facebook app has many billions of downloads. Clearly some people prefer it.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#119

Post by vbezhenar »

dep_b wrote: post #111
vbezhenar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the status of Objective C language today? Is it fully supported forever or is it in legacy status waiting for its support to be dropped in the future?

It will be fully supported probably forever since Apple wrote a ton of their own systems in it and it has perfect integration with C and C++. The language is basically done at this point, any new features will probably be aimed at language interop.

Thanks. I'm not a vivid iOS developer, but I'm writing some apps sometimes. Swift is so fast moving target that I don't want to pursue it, while Objective C is a language that I know and actually like. It's like C vs C++, I learned C++ 15 years ago, but it's completely different since then, so my knowledge is basically useless without solid investments, while C is almost the same as it was 30 years ago.

Re: Apple is developing a feature for using apps without requiring full downloads

#120

Post by dahfizz »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #117
dahfizz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web apps have always sucked and always will suck. With decades of development and thousands of frameworks, it still sucks. Instant apps take the one advantage web apps have (you don't have to install them) and brings that to the native platform. I think that makes a ton of sense, vs "just fixing" something that people have been trying to fix for decades. How often do you go to uber.com to call an uber? If you want to…

I'm using a ton of apps that have Web and native options and in most cases I prefer the Web version. I'm sure others feel differently and that's fine. But you're forgetting two major advantages of Web apps: They are cross platform und neither users nor publishers need any permissions from some oligopolist middleman.

Cross platform web apps are a myth. You have to test a comparability matrix of all the major browsers on all the major platforms because they are all different in subtle ways that actually matter when making complicated apps.

Native cross platform toolkits like Qt are no more work but provide a much better user experience.

And I agree that the current state of the mobile platform monopolies is a shame. If you care about Android, I encourage you to publish to Fdroid.

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