Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#21

Post by yazaddaruvala » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

three_seagrass wrote: post #17

It's still baffling that Apple is allowed to have such strict controls over their platform while still competing with the products they're charging rent to to be on it (i.e. iTunes & Spotify). I get why some make the analogy with Grocery Stores and stocking their in-house brands (e.g. Safeway with Signature, Apple with iTunes), but with Apple, it's like the customer has already bought the grocery store and Apple is s…

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience.

As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early!

As a customer, I'd prefer even stricter controls on the app store and even more curation to keep pushing the application quality higher. If Apple needs to charge developers to ensure the quality of applications is constantly improving, then I'm happy they do. I'm also happy to wait for a killer app[1], deploy it to Android first and then bring it over to iOS when the demand is enough to negotiate with Apple.

[1] e.g. When I switched over to iOS I had to give up Swiping to type on my keyboard, for a few years till iOS was able to catch up. I understood Apple's rationale and waited. Now with iOS and a Swipe keyboard I am an even happier customer.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#22

Post by zyang » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 11:42 PM UTC

three_seagrass wrote: post #17

It's still baffling that Apple is allowed to have such strict controls over their platform while still competing with the products they're charging rent to to be on it (i.e. iTunes & Spotify). I get why some make the analogy with Grocery Stores and stocking their in-house brands (e.g. Safeway with Signature, Apple with iTunes), but with Apple, it's like the customer has already bought the grocery store and Apple is s…

It's not hard to find precedents: Nintendo owns the platform and games.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#23

Post by askafriend » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 12:01 AM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

three_seagrass wrote: post #17

It's still baffling that Apple is allowed to have such strict controls over their platform while still competing with the products they're charging rent to to be on it (i.e. iTunes & Spotify). I get why some make the analogy with Grocery Stores and stocking their in-house brands (e.g. Safeway with Signature, Apple with iTunes), but with Apple, it's like the customer has already bought the grocery store and Apple is s…

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience. As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early! As a customer, I'd p…

> I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience

100% agree. I pay the premium because of the walled garden. I prefer it. I want Apple to have a tight grip over suppliers. I want Apple to have a tight grip over the experience on their platforms. I want Apple to have a tight grip over their 3rd party developers.

In fact, I say this as an engineer myself; I even develop for Apple's platform so I'm impacted by their dev-facing decisions!

In my nearly 2 decade history with Apple as a customer, I often align with their principles and I want them to make decisions for me. I do not value an open platform. I only value a good user experience and I value my problems being solved in consistent and elegant ways with a focus on design.

People act as if customers are somehow duped into the walled garden. NO! That's missing the entire thesis of Apple and the driving force behind their success.

This is my opinion and you don't have to agree with it. I almost never express this opinion in discussions like this because why bother. But I figured it's helpful for others to see this opinion represented.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#24

Post by askafriend » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 12:14 AM UTC

modsRapple wrote: post #19

thanatos_dem wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand new account, named “modsRapple”, with only this comment. Safe to ignore.

Ahh because rational argument doesn't count because of a name? Be careful Thanatos, don't rely on tradition and authority figures. That's pre scientific method ways of thinking.

Nothing about your argument was rational. All you made clear was that you do not understand what Apple's customers value.

Hint: It's not a technology spec sheet. And even if it was, their specs blow the competition out of the water. I think your focus on embedded systems is coloring your view of consumer technology.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#25

Post by enos_feedler » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 12:22 AM UTC

>Content has extremely high fixed costs, and zero marginal costs; it follows, then, that the fiscally responsible content producers sell that content to as many outlets as possible

I wonder if this means Netflix may try to maximize some of it's best content more by taking out of streaming inventory and charging to purchase/rent individual series and movies? all within the Netflix app?

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#26

Post by enos_feedler » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 12:27 AM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #23

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience. As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early! As a customer, I'd p…

> I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience 100% agree. I pay the premium because of the walled garden. I prefer it. I want Apple to have a tight grip over suppliers. I want Apple to have a tight grip over the experience on their platforms. I want Apple to have a tight grip over their 3rd party developers. In fact, I say this as an engineer myself; I even develop for Apple's platform so I'm impacted by their dev-…

Thank you for expressing your opinion here. I think it's often under-rated just how well Apple understands it's customer base and it's because these types of opinions are over-shadowed by developer gripes, especially on forums like this. One of the most impressive things I see Apple do is introduce products and features that they _know_ will land will with their existing customer base.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#27

Post by lowdose » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 12:31 AM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

three_seagrass wrote: post #17

It's still baffling that Apple is allowed to have such strict controls over their platform while still competing with the products they're charging rent to to be on it (i.e. iTunes & Spotify). I get why some make the analogy with Grocery Stores and stocking their in-house brands (e.g. Safeway with Signature, Apple with iTunes), but with Apple, it's like the customer has already bought the grocery store and Apple is s…

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience. As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early! As a customer, I'd p…

Yes, I also think that $99 annual developer account fee is keeping the app garden neat.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#28

Post by kartickv » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

three_seagrass wrote: post #17

It's still baffling that Apple is allowed to have such strict controls over their platform while still competing with the products they're charging rent to to be on it (i.e. iTunes & Spotify). I get why some make the analogy with Grocery Stores and stocking their in-house brands (e.g. Safeway with Signature, Apple with iTunes), but with Apple, it's like the customer has already bought the grocery store and Apple is s…

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience. As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early! As a customer, I'd p…

To the extent that the walled garden keeps quality up, I'm all for it as a user, and in agreement with you. I'm all for Apple clamping down on apps that crash, violate privacy, drain the battery, deceptively advertise prices, and so on.

But I don't see how I benefit from some of Apple's moves, such as stealing 30% of developers' revenues [1] when their own apps don't have to suffer this tax, or Apple Music spamming me via push notification ads while others are forbidden from doing so. Or taking down apps that mention that they also support Android. All of these are in Apple's benefit, and against mine.

In 2008, I gave the benefit of doubt to walled gardens. In 2020, it's clear that they need government regulation to stop abusing both users and developers, which a monopolist otherwise tends to do. Walled gardens are still a good idea for people like you and me, but need to be controlled.

[1] When I've already paid through my nose for Apple's overpriced devices.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#29

Post by three_seagrass » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:41 AM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #23

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience. As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early! As a customer, I'd p…

> I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience 100% agree. I pay the premium because of the walled garden. I prefer it. I want Apple to have a tight grip over suppliers. I want Apple to have a tight grip over the experience on their platforms. I want Apple to have a tight grip over their 3rd party developers. In fact, I say this as an engineer myself; I even develop for Apple's platform so I'm impacted by their dev-…

Are those mutually exclusive though?

Apple can control the user experience on the device you bought without forcing a 30% surcharge against the competition.

Re: Apple, Amazon, and Common Enemies

#30

Post by wstrange » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:44 AM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

three_seagrass wrote: post #17

It's still baffling that Apple is allowed to have such strict controls over their platform while still competing with the products they're charging rent to to be on it (i.e. iTunes & Spotify). I get why some make the analogy with Grocery Stores and stocking their in-house brands (e.g. Safeway with Signature, Apple with iTunes), but with Apple, it's like the customer has already bought the grocery store and Apple is s…

This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but I don't only pay Apple for the smartphone's hardware. I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience. As a developer, I understand wanting to get access to a large user base. I understand wanting to keep costs down, especially as an indie dev. And I definitely understand wanting to keep my margins high, to fund better development but also retire early! As a customer, I'd p…

> I'm also paying Apple to curate my experience.

Which is totally fine.

But why not allow customers to make that decision? If the Apple App store truly delivers an experience that warrants a 30% uplift, consumers will pay for it.