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Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

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Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might suck right now, but this is a relatively nascent application of the technology. Wait until resolution improves and we break out of the "desktop" paradigm. We could have a collection of unlimited windows and tabs that exist in a continuum around us, and we could use gestures to organize and surface the contextually relevant ones. We won't need a bulky multi-monitor setup, and we could work remotely nearly a…

> Wait until resolution improves and we break out of the "desktop" paradigm. We could have a collection of unlimited windows and tabs that exist in a continuum around us, and we could use gestures to organize and surface the contextually relevant ones. You can get 90% there by just using multiple desktops IMHO, at least that's my experience.

I think in the mid-term, the big win would be ability to have 4-10 large monitors but with a cheaper, mobile, and compact solution with the eyes focused further away.

Headsets have improved almost ~2x in resolution and have halved in price and some have become wireless with better optics. A long ways from 4-5 years ago, but still need another doubling of resolution (or maybe more) and an increase in wearing comfort (lighter, more compact) plus an improvement in wireless latency and maybe a reduction from $400 to $300, and you’re looking at something that would be useful just as a replacement for multiple monitors.

Plus probably improvement with registering where your laptop and mouse are automatically. In principle that could be done with a software update to inside-out tracking software.

Additionally, some improvement is possible with similar to current resolution but with improved subpixel rendering and RGB pixel layout.

Seeing what has been done with the Oculus Quest since I last checked out VR like 3 years ago has left me pretty impressed. A lot of this stuff with multiple windows in this demo could be done natively and wirelessly with the Quest (which runs a kind of Linux). The inside-out tracking is impressively good. If combined with an insert you can put your tracked controllers on Bluetooth mouse and keyboard (so the Quest can register their positions in3D space to allow proper rendering in-headset), it could give you a high productivity workstation experience just about anywhere with WiFi (could be through phone). Hand-tracking (Which works already) could even allow gestures, although I’m not sure how important that is. Can the Quest do subpixel text rendering like ClearType but 3D?

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#124

Been thinking about VR workspaces since sometime in the '80's. Broadly, they suck. It seems so cool but in practice VR adds pointless overhead to efficient UI. Windows with affine transformations suck at their one job . Very few people use Second Life as an IDE. The big win, as far as I can tell, would be to engage the user's spacial memory. (There is a small but non-zero niche for 3D visualization of complex systems…

> Windows with affine transformations

There's no reason you can't make the windows always perpendicular to the line of sight while still fixing their centers in space.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#125

This looks absolutely awesome, but I think there's a bit more to be done RE neck strain and general ergonomics for the vast majority of people. If you are at a desk and/or without a swivel chair, you're pretty limited to a grid of ~9 screens directly in front of you, and even then it looks like you're turning your head a TON to see the outer layer. Some ideas that might help: 1) To use an analogy, could you increase…

Having spent some time in VR in the past, remapping inputs like "the mouse speed of your head" can be super disorienting when you return to the "real world," perhaps dangerously so if spent the majority of your workday in VR.

Your brain adapts, and starts to believe at a primal level that "things fall this speed when I drop them," "I move this fast when I walk", "when I point over there, it's at this angle," etc.

If anybody remembers playing GTA for too long, and later walking outside with the feeling like you ought to be able to jump in the nearest car and drive it a way, you have an inkling of how your brain gets remapped.

Remarkably quickly, moving around in the real-world can feel "off" to the same degree that it felt "off" when you first entered the VR world when you start messing with these primal feedback loops. Get ready to bump into things, and don't operate any heavy machinery if you've been in a non-1:1 VR mapping.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#126

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

It’d be awesome if you could do this natively on the Quest (sideloaded). Native gesture control, inside-out tracking, wireless, almost twice the resolution, and wouldn’t even need to be connected to a PC at all so could be used anywhere (with Bluetooth keyboard and mouse).

Have you thought about an Android/Quest version?

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#127

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

I love the idea of a VR workspace. There are so many limitations in our current workflows and tools that mainly just arise from being restricted to a small flat surface. Even just having your perfect setup anywhere you go would be amazing. All you need is a headset and a small portable cube computer - basically a laptop without a screen.

---

But after watching your video, I feel like this really needs some tiling window manager (i3 etc) inspired way of easily creating workspaces with tiles, and effortlessly navigating between them. With relatively minimal head movement.

Also, does Simula support curved displays? It would seem very natural to arrange different curved screens around you instead of flat ones, which also potentially waste quite a bit of useful space.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might suck right now, but this is a relatively nascent application of the technology. Wait until resolution improves and we break out of the "desktop" paradigm. We could have a collection of unlimited windows and tabs that exist in a continuum around us, and we could use gestures to organize and surface the contextually relevant ones. We won't need a bulky multi-monitor setup, and we could work remotely nearly a…

> and we could use gestures to organize and surface the contextually relevant ones. Eight hours+ of using gestures a day sounds like hell.

Not if they're super minimal. I can imagine something less than moving your wrist while using your mouse.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#129
There's something a little humorous about a new VR system whose primary feature is how well it can display VT100 emulators.

I don't know anyone who used MS Windows when their software was all still MS-DOS programs. Windows really took off when programmers started writing programs designed to take advantage of the native GUI paradigm.

Likewise, VR is never going to be accepted as a practical user interface until it moves beyond the concept of "windows". I fully believe it's possible to make a great VR user interface, but I can't believe it's going to look anything like some rectangles floating in space.

This could be a VR-fvwm. What we really need is a VR-GTK+.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#130

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

I love the idea of a VR workspace. There are so many limitations in our current workflows and tools that mainly just arise from being restricted to a small flat surface. Even just having your perfect setup anywhere you go would be amazing. All you need is a headset and a small portable cube computer - basically a laptop without a screen. --- But after watching your video, I feel like this really needs some tiling win…

Yes, a tiling functionality is something we're considering as a future feature. In fact, the shortcut system is inspired by it.

I'll put curved windows onto our todo list. Not sure if they're a good idea for all applications but at least some would benefit.

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