Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again - you don't know what his internal process was for picking these jobs. You can't mind read and impute motivations for his selections. And no, it's not a strawman. Lack of direction, lack of ambition, lazy, unmotivated. See how they all go together?
Lazy and unmotivated are about his internal state, which you correctly point out we don't know. Lack of direction and ambition are observations of exterior actions. He is not moving in a direction, so we can say he lacks direction. He doesn't seek to be great or even good at anything so he lacks ambition. In making those two observations we have not ascribed any reason why he lacks ambition or direction. So complaini…
Someone is stealing your life (1990)
141–150 of 165 posts
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
"addressing the problems of capitalism as suggested by the author of the article?" and what problems are those? That not everyone comes out on top? Of course this is the case. I am interested in alternatives that don't involve limiting the success of the people that are actually creating wealth or taking exorbitant amounts of money through taxes. When you've lived long enough, you realize that there aren't many ideas…
Did I suggest I had any such idea? Did I suggest limiting anyone's success or taking exorbitant amounts of money through taxes? The problems in question are not that not everyone comes out on top - it's that "not coming out on top" involves a great deal of exploitation and coercion. More so than most will admit. The problem is that "coming out on top" now means you control a hugely disproportionate sum of wealth - an…
No, but I'm waiting for it.
"The problem is that "coming out on top" now means you control a hugely disproportionate sum of wealth"
...that you've earned. I don't see a problem.
"and thereby exert a disproportionate influence on society, invariably to the expense of others."
Then let's not allow people with money to set the rules. Capitalism isn't the problem. It's corrupt politicians that take kickbacks. I would also like to mention that money is power. In any time in history, the more money you have, the more power you possess. It will always be the case. If not money, then whatever currency we are using. It's not like you can't go out and earn your own.
"And therein lies one of the problems - the rewards do not go to those who make the wealth, and that's exactly the point the author of the article was making."
You can't make a blanket statement like this, because it's not true in most cases. When the guy in the article was working as a "Jack-in-the-Box counterperson", what was he willing to risk all of his time and money to run the business? It sounds to me like he wants the same amount of profits as an owner, but none of the risks.
As I've stated earlier, I don't think people would really like it if companies were allowed to hire people at no pay, work them day and night for the hope that they will make a profit (which is what it takes as an owner). Just ask anyone here that is trying to start a company. You might make it big, but you will probably fail many more times before you succeed.
Most people want a comfort blanket. They don't want to have to worry about profit margins. They want to know that they will get paid every month.
"If an engineer invents a radical new process for fabricating microchips, who is paid the huge sum of money resulting from it - the CEO or the engineer? Which one actually created wealth and value?"
If the engineer is under contract and using the resources, money, and lab of his employer to create this radical new process, he is getting paid a salary he agreed upon (which wasn't by force). If he is using all of his own equipment, under no contract, it can make him very rich. I don't really see a problem with anything you are describing, except your sense of entitlement.
"This is merely condescension. Age doesn't grant you any magical insights, and you don't have to reach a certain age to know there are no new ideas. I figured that out a long time ago. That said, you want to talk about defeatists attitudes? "There are no new ideas" is a cake taker in that department."
Do you actually think I believe there isn't anything new? I was merely pointing out that there are thousands of years of history and experience in the economic, finance, and politics department, which can show you what works and what doesn't (and if your idea is radically new or just a rehash of something old).
Age can grant you insight, if you learn from history and your experiences.
Ponzi schemes are a good example of this. They will always fail in the end, yet people continue to fall for them.
"I don't have all the answers, and I don't claim to - but we have absolutely zero chance of addressing social issues if we as a society won't even acknowledge them. And just because I don't have a better alternative right now, doesn't mean that no one else does either - or that I won't in the future."
There are more important social issues to address than some guy that is whining about his life.
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not easy, and that's the point. You can take the easy road, which is to get a job and work for someone, hoping that you haven't wasted your life away, or you can take the hard road and build something. Both have benefits, and both have risks. There's no easy ticket, at least in this life, so employer and employee have to meet in the middle. The market helps that happen. You had me until your last point, which wa…
As an employee, you have to do what your employer tells you. If you do not, you will not have the means to continue feeding yourself and putting a roof over your head. As an employee, the vast bulk of the wealth you create will never end up in your hands - it will end up in the hands of people who did not do your work. How exactly is that not exploitation? What would you call it? "The market helps that happen." The m…
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an employee, you have to do what your employer tells you. If you do not, you will not have the means to continue feeding yourself and putting a roof over your head. As an employee, the vast bulk of the wealth you create will never end up in your hands - it will end up in the hands of people who did not do your work. How exactly is that not exploitation? What would you call it? "The market helps that happen." The m…
Are you a socialist?
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that everyone should be required to read everything about a topic before posting their thoughts on it?
He was not 'failing to read everything'. He was either 'failing to read anything', or, more likely, reading a fair bit and intentionally stripping all reference to this existing knowledge out of his column for whatever reason. The result was unsurprisingly sophomoric, which I suppose is why it has 150 points on HN.
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#146This sounds like the whiny rant of a child. It's not just about money, it's about drive and vision. If you have drive and vision, then your employer will notice and you'll move up, learn more, maybe even make enough to start your own business with your own ideas. If not, if you don't choose to better yourself and fight for what you want, then you fit the position you allow yourself to fit. You wouldn't ask a janitor…
It pains me to say this, but this sentiment strikes me as seriously naive. Plenty of people work like animals, are driven like crazy, and have "vision." And for quite a few of them, their employer could give two craps.
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want to get drawn into a really long debate, I just have two things to say: 1. People aren't born developers, plumbers, etc., it's a career you choose 2. The technology that enables these things is not going to disappear, of that we can be pretty sure
The question, as another commenter posted elsewhere in this thread, is: does it scale? Sure, you choose your career (to a large extent) but society needs developers AND plumbers, and too many people choosing to be developers would push down developer wages to the point where being a developer would no longer be desirable. It can't work for everyone. We need a solution that does not create an underclass of people that…
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did I suggest I had any such idea? Did I suggest limiting anyone's success or taking exorbitant amounts of money through taxes? The problems in question are not that not everyone comes out on top - it's that "not coming out on top" involves a great deal of exploitation and coercion. More so than most will admit. The problem is that "coming out on top" now means you control a hugely disproportionate sum of wealth - an…
"Did I suggest I had any such idea? Did I suggest limiting anyone's success or taking exorbitant amounts of money through taxes?" No, but I'm waiting for it. "The problem is that "coming out on top" now means you control a hugely disproportionate sum of wealth" ...that you've earned. I don't see a problem. "and thereby exert a disproportionate influence on society, invariably to the expense of others." Then let's not…
Keep waiting then, because it's not going to happen. I would never suggest anything of the sort. It's not nearly creative enough of a solution, for one thing.
"...that you've earned. I don't see a problem."
Just because you don't see a problem, doesn't mean that there isn't one.
So, say, a CEO who is hired to run a company and assumes no financial risk on their own for doing so has "earned" the right to 40x more salary than the people who actually make the products? Somehow that doesn't seem right. Do they work forty times harder? Forty times more? Neither is physically possible. Do they assume forty times as much risk? Having seen more than a few golden parachute deals, I think it's obvious that they don't.
"what was he willing to risk all of his time and money to run the business?"
Most business people are saavy enough to start their businesses with other people's money. See: Venture Capitalism.
"It sounds to me like he wants the same amount of profits as an owner, but none of the risks."
This is a gross misrepresentation of the author's position.
"If the engineer is under contract and using the resources, money, and lab of his employer to create this radical new process, he is getting paid a salary he agreed upon (which wasn't by force)."
He must agree to a salary somewhere if he wants to eat and have a place to live. This is not choice. It's not overt force either, but it does have something of coercion about it.
"If he is using all of his own equipment, under no contract, it can make him very rich."
Most people could not afford such equipment even if they are inclined to use it. They therefore have no choice but to work for someone else.
"I don't really see a problem with anything you are describing, except your sense of entitlement."
This is an ad hominem. I have not stated anywhere that I or anyone else are entitled to anything, nor would I ever.
"Do you actually think I believe there isn't anything new? I was merely pointing out that there are thousands of years of history and experience in the economic, finance, and politics department, which can show you what works and what doesn't (and if your idea is radically new or just a rehash of something old)."
This much is blatantly obvious. And?
"There are more important social issues to address than some guy that is whining about his life."
More ad hominem. Also the issues being addressed by the author are bigger than his own life. He states as much if you actually read it carefully.
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current state has been thus for all of about a decade, maybe two if you want to get technical about it. It remains to be seen whether it sticks around for the long term. It is also debatable whether this really represents an improvement, much less a continual one. With the increasing availability of the basics to launch a web application, the expected value of doing so has declined correspondingly. Even if we tak…
I don't want to get drawn into a really long debate, I just have two things to say: 1. People aren't born developers, plumbers, etc., it's a career you choose 2. The technology that enables these things is not going to disappear, of that we can be pretty sure
I didn't imply that they are, but ignoring that people have innate abilities - and by extension, innate weaknesses - that shape their choices is simplistic.
"2. The technology that enables these things is not going to disappear, of that we can be pretty sure"
I didn't say it would. However, the economic conditions that make working in fields related to it probably eventually will.
Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)
#150It sucks to have nothing to offer an employer except fungible labor that they could get from a million other people. The author should work on that. There are 6 billion people in this world and not enough wealth to let everyone live like a king just for breathing (yet).