Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#261

Post by blub » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #207

TeMPOraL wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wether it cleanly fits into your political ideology or not, The United States is the most powerful country in the world It's not a matter of my ideology. I recognize that the US was the most powerful country in the world before the pandemic, but looking at the news about the US response, I have a feeling it will no longer be once the coronavirus is finally dealt with. Then again, maybe I'm just biased by the dispro…

If the US is not the most powerful country then who is? The US has the strongest economy and the strongest military. What other measure are you looking at? Even if you want to look at Europe as a single country then that would be debatable. UK just left and its looking like there is growing support for Spain and Poland to leave. It looks like the EU may be falling apart. I think you need to look at individual US stat…

The US is extremely divided. Even in these times the political class and society could not get over their differences.

The lack of a social net and out of control capitalism are also massive issues.

The president was downplaying the virus.

The US doesn't look like the most powerful country in the world, nor as a leader.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#262

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

xamuel wrote: post #259

TeMPOraL wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense, because the only reason React would suddenly fail on you is if your project is so very badly engineered that you don't pin dependencies and cache them locally. And even then, your deployed instances would remain unaffected. A dependency is something you own (a checked-out copy of). A better comparison is with services. So you may be using a payment gateway in your product, and maybe you need just…

We could easily imagine that suddenly it is revealed that React contains some super-well-hidden malware that phones home to Facebook, and that's been built into React since early versions. As doubtful as that sounds, it's actually not unlike recent scares about China embedding secret transmitters deep inside of circuitboards, etc.

Again, you own your code dependencies[0]. A patch would be quickly released by software security experts, which every half-competent developer could apply to their product on their own. That's the benefit of ownership - you get to fix things. With software, you don't even need spare parts.

Depending on services is where the fragility starts. They're single points of failure, unless you have a plan to quickly switch to an equivalent competitor.

--

[0] - Unless they have a time-limited commercial license. Then they're essentially a service.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#263

Post by ForHackernews » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

sct202 wrote: post #157

philliphaydon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During Swine Flu outbreak in 2009 china closed it's borders to Mexico, but turns around and says it's unfair when people close their borders to china. Then proceeded to close their borders AGAIN. facepalm

No one has to listen to the CCP. The CCP acts offended by everything.

Everyone has to listen to the CCP. They control access to the world's second-largest economy.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#264

Post by the-dude » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #258

the-dude wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have no source for the claim that 'The Dutch made an ordering mistake'. I won't read LinkedIn btw, that is not a source.

Why do you not find those sources convincing? Yeah nobody is explicitly making the statement "sorry, I messed up" but if I put the facts together then that's still what happened, in my opinion. I think you dismiss LinkedIn way too quickly. Hedda Sasburg is a business development consultant specialized in trade with China. I think this counts as expertise w.r.t. what Chinese different products and standards are. Why d…

You are quite active in this thread.

I think it is wonderful the central Chinese government decided to step in and regulate the trade.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#265

Post by ForHackernews » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #148

hkmurakami wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally enjoyed the hypocrisy of China initially requesting Nations to not "overreact" and close borders to its travelers (mid February), then proceeding to do exactly this towards these same nations (mid March) when things became worse overseas.

CCP does not understand that playing asymmetric games from business laws (booting Uber off of China for example), diplomacy and global influence, etc is damaging long term brand and goodwill. In this pandemic, democratic nations are suffering more than authoritarian regimes purely by choice - complete Wuhan style measures are unacceptable say in Sweden. This asymmetry is going to give a short term boost to China. Lon…

> It is already changing: https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-08/japan....

This is the same article as the OP.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#266

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #185

magicsmoke wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subsidies from Made in China 2025 won't be going to foreign companies since it's supposed fund Chinese companies and domestic innovation so they can have replacements for foreign tech IP. There should be no reason for the international market to think they can get some of that money.

> There should be no reason for the international market to think they can get some of that money. Unless the Chinese companies receiving the subsidies are barred from exporting their products, then the global market will buy those subsidized products and global unsubsidized competitors will suffer. You are not allowed to export state subsidized products per WTO rules.

You are not allowed to export state subsidized products per WTO rules.

The Chinese government is well known for propping up domestic companies and playing favorites, and now suddenly you think it cares about international rules?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#267

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

guug wrote: post #39

Even if japan (or any other country) manages to pull production back within its boarders, wouldn't China still be more competitive due to cheaper labor/supply chain costs? IMO, the reason why companies outsourced their production to china still holds today. Companies pulling out will be at a competitive disadvantage against companies who don't.

Even if japan (or any other country) manages to pull production back within its boarders, wouldn't China still be more competitive due to cheaper labor/supply chain costs?

Not everyone makes purchasing decisions based on price alone.

My wife is into vintage things as a hobby. She says the demand for anything "made in USA" has gone through the roof in the last five years simply because people don't want to support China anymore. Even used Made in Mexico, Taiwan, and Hong Kong items have seen a surge.

The trick is to move that view of China as a bad option from a subset of people to the majority of people.

Her full-time work is in retail, and she says people will happily pay 3x the price for "Made in Italy" items instead of "Made in China."

China knows this, which is why it has factories in both the E.U. and the United States filled with Chinese laborers churning things out so they can be labeled "Made in {$anywhere_but_China}."

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#268

Post by mc32 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

tren-hard wrote: post #5

So Japanese companies move operations to China because it's cheaper, leaving Japanese jobs behinds. Those businesses profit from cheap labor, emissions, and materials. Now Japan is subsidizing their return to Japan with $2.2 billion. I really hope the US doesn't adopt this (narrator: they will). It's a slap in the face to tax payers.

But they can tax the workers who now have gainful employment and make that tax money back (I’d say also saves social benefits, in on JP, the requirements to be on the dole are strict.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#269

Post by Mountain_Skies » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

jennyyang wrote: post #4

At the very least, medical supplies and drugs manufacturing will get pulled back into each country. The 3M spat between Canada and the US makes it abundantly clear that in a time of true crisis, you can't even trust your closest friends when something terrifying happens to the world like this pandemic. Whether it means all manufacturing will move away from China or if it means that they will spread it globally, is an…

People have friends, countries do not. The country that doesn't understand this sets up its own misery. Also no government that wants to remain in power is going to ship out goods that are already in short supply in their own country. Excess goods of course will continue to be traded for economic benefit.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#270

Post by aianus » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #266

aianus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There should be no reason for the international market to think they can get some of that money. Unless the Chinese companies receiving the subsidies are barred from exporting their products, then the global market will buy those subsidized products and global unsubsidized competitors will suffer. You are not allowed to export state subsidized products per WTO rules.

You are not allowed to export state subsidized products per WTO rules. The Chinese government is well known for propping up domestic companies and playing favorites, and now suddenly you think it cares about international rules?

No, I don't think they care, but the rule is there on the books.

It is obviously up to the other members of the WTO to enforce the rules.