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Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

bloomberg.com

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Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#101

Post by lotsofpulp »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34
rsweeney21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations exist to protect it's citizens. So yeah, as they should, each country is prioritizing their own needs before exporting any surplus to other countries. The challenge is no one really has any idea how much of the supplies they actually need. It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior.

> It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior. It's not surprising in the sense that it fits the definition of a "nation state". It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

Coordination (or cooperation) only works up to a point. If resources are truly scarce, then being selfish may be the only way to survive no matter what century you’re in.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#102

Post by Zenst »

magicsmoke wrote: post #58
Zenst wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry posted in response to wrong comment and so not direct response to the comment replied to, more the thread above and editing this in as unable to delete and redo, sorry my bad. When outsourcing of production and labour suits, it's ignored for the underlying issues, when those underlying issue come to the surface, the same people who shifted for a shareholder appeasement dividend are just as quick to point the fi…

You posted on the wrong comment mate

I did, sorry, my bad thank you for pointing out i'll fix that mess. ok added edit at start, can't delete now so fixed that context drift.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#103

Post by zepto »

wendyshu wrote: post #29
atonse wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it should be. A nation's government should ABSOLUTELY put its citizens over everything else. Not sure what you would have them do instead? What is happening is unfair to some, but the individual governments are doing exactly what they should be doing, valuing their people above all else.

Have morals that aren't a function of geographic location, presumably.

Isn’t it clearly immoral to sacrifice the interests of the people who elected you to support another nation?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#104

Post by lgleason »

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #31
ShinTakuya wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree in part that it's not fair, I would argue against the idea that jobs were lost in Japan. Maybe temporarily lost, but in the end economically you end up finding another way to contribute value and be paid. Moreover the companies can't be blamed for taking the most profitable route. It's up to the governments to regulate.

I disagree. Many of the jobs that left Japan and the United States in the 80's and 90's are not coming back - they've already been replaced by robots. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Cashiers, accountants and drivers are all being replaced by robots and automated systems. These jobs are going away and aren't going to be replaced by a comparable entry-level job. This automation is picking up pace now and will onl…

If that was truly the case it would be cheaper to have manufacturing locally, vs shipping things across the world from China.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#105

Post by philliphaydon »

Medicalidiot wrote: post #93
philliphaydon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During Swine Flu outbreak in 2009 china closed it's borders to Mexico, but turns around and says it's unfair when people close their borders to china. Then proceeded to close their borders AGAIN. facepalm

SARS happened in 2002-2004, no?

You're right, I'm thinking Swine Flu. Thanks.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#106

Post by tren-hard »

zepto wrote: post #74
tren-hard wrote: post #5

So Japanese companies move operations to China because it's cheaper, leaving Japanese jobs behinds. Those businesses profit from cheap labor, emissions, and materials. Now Japan is subsidizing their return to Japan with $2.2 billion. I really hope the US doesn't adopt this (narrator: they will). It's a slap in the face to tax payers.

Why? Isn’t it good to bring the jobs back?

I don't think the citizens of Japan should fund that. If Japan wants manufacturing in their country and it isn't appealing enough on its own then it should be done through regulation, not tax payer subsides.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#107

Post by throw_m239339 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34
rsweeney21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations exist to protect it's citizens. So yeah, as they should, each country is prioritizing their own needs before exporting any surplus to other countries. The challenge is no one really has any idea how much of the supplies they actually need. It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior.

> It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior. It's not surprising in the sense that it fits the definition of a "nation state". It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

> It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

More globalists isn't going to solve globalism.

American politicians answer to their constituants, not the China or India. If it looks like policitians didn't first and foremost prioritize the need of their own citizens who elected them then it's treason.

> competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

The irony, it's the very definition of economic liberalism and what led to the current paradigm, globalism. The pandemic is only global because trade is global and people can easily travel between countries.

So no the solution isn't "a world government", the solution is to take back western industrial force from China.

Today, This is just the bill coming due, this is the real cost of the last 40 years of western industrial policies.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#108

Post by lgleason »

guug wrote: post #39

Even if japan (or any other country) manages to pull production back within its boarders, wouldn't China still be more competitive due to cheaper labor/supply chain costs? IMO, the reason why companies outsourced their production to china still holds today. Companies pulling out will be at a competitive disadvantage against companies who don't.

Factor in the cost of the pandemic, and the question becomes is it worth it for that cheap TV etc.?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#109

Post by sbmthakur »

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

In times of a global crisis, it makes sense to first take care of those who are near you. Many nations have sent aids to other nations to fight this pandemic, so I won't say it's complete tribalism. More like this situation has shown us one of the downsides of globalism.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#110

Post by pretendscholar »

tren-hard wrote: post #5

So Japanese companies move operations to China because it's cheaper, leaving Japanese jobs behinds. Those businesses profit from cheap labor, emissions, and materials. Now Japan is subsidizing their return to Japan with $2.2 billion. I really hope the US doesn't adopt this (narrator: they will). It's a slap in the face to tax payers.

Japan is a particular case where it actually makes sense to move the production overseas without fear of leaving people behind simply because there isn't a labor force to build anything, no natural resources to use in production, and wonky currency problems due to a disproportionately structured demography.
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