Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#81

Post by mc32 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

guug wrote: post #39

Even if japan (or any other country) manages to pull production back within its boarders, wouldn't China still be more competitive due to cheaper labor/supply chain costs? IMO, the reason why companies outsourced their production to china still holds today. Companies pulling out will be at a competitive disadvantage against companies who don't.

It may be that rather than put all production eggs in the China basket, advanced economies diversify both by having domestic production and having a diversified global production basket.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#82

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #70

TeMPOraL wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but at the same time, it shows the need for a global government to coordinate responses to global problems like this pandemic.

Unless that global government is dominated by Chinese communist government ideology or shows the same judgement as the WHO. Thanks but no thanks. At least with nation states you have some checks and balances. It's also way too much concentrated power for my liking.

> Unless that global government is dominated by Chinese communist government ideology or shows the same judgement as the WHO.

Or like the federal government of the United States. I think we've been having pretty bad luck this year with large and influential organizations, which is a fair counterpoint to a global government proposal.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#83

Post by _wldu » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

The USA really needs to stop rewarding the quarterly profit driven stock market approach to management. It's the same thing that caused Boeing to build bad airplanes and the same thing that causes companies to build insecure software. We need to get back to engineers and architects (who actually know what they are doing) making decisions and building solid solutions and products. Companies can be reasonably profitable and have sound products and software too without farming everything out to the cheapest bidder of the week.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#84

Post by philliphaydon » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

not_exactly__ wrote: post #62

FooBarWidget wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China will have more incidents of pandemics for sure, because they haven't learned from the last one, and they won't learn from this one. I disagree. They took many months to report SARS to WHO, yes. But this time, reporting to WHO took ~5 days. It was discovered by dr Zhang Jixian on Dec 26, then reported to WHO on Dec 31. Then it took them about another week to sequence the genome and share it with the world. Plu…

> But this time, reporting to WHO took ~5 days. It was discovered by dr Zhang Jixian on Dec 26, then reported to WHO on Dec 31. False. It took much longer than five days. The WHO was indeed notified on the 31st but the Chinese government organs knew about this long before. First CCTV report that I recall was around the 15th. First confirmed cases were early December. There’s even US intel reports dating back to Novem…

We heard about it just before Xmas time in Singapore. Basically that there was another SARS outbreak in china. It was definitely known before the 26th.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#85

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #79

TeMPOraL wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why it is not in China best interests to offer genuine support when they can? It's definitely in their interest, because in terms of realpolitik, this is their golden opportunity one-up the US on the world stage, possibly even making Europe more aligned with them than with the States.

Turns out everyone is just flailing and drunk on the dance floor, geopolitically.

I just hope they stay away from their respective red button consoles.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#86

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

oefrha wrote: post #76

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Given that China seems to force countries to pay for PPE the same countries previously donated to China, you're right for being skeptical. https://abc14news.com/2020/04/06/china-forces-italy-to-buy-s...

I would find this report more reliable if it quotes Italian officials, not Trump administration said this, Pence said that. Basing an entire article on the hearsay of an unrelated third party (that has a less than stellar track record of telling the truth) is just... odd.

I think people may also be mixing up the two parallel streams of PPEs - there were equipment donations, and at the same time, Chinese manufacturers are selling PPEs like they normally do.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#87

Post by magicsmoke » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

dchichkov wrote: post #69

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #11

Reducing dependence on China is a good idea. A single point of failure leads to a lot of the problems we're experiencing now. However that doesn't mean we should abandon global trade or the movement of people. Isolationism isn't the lesson we should be learning from this whole mess.

It is difficult to compete with a strategic program like "Made in China 2025". We'll see. I'd guess, no change - the subsidy program in China will remain largest and most competitive, market will seeks subsidies of the largest program. The externalities, like the single point of failure that you've pointed out, will be ignored.

The subsidies from Made in China 2025 won't be going to foreign companies since it's supposed fund Chinese companies and domestic innovation so they can have replacements for foreign tech IP. There should be no reason for the international market to think they can get some of that money.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#88

Post by astronautjones » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #56

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior. It's not surprising in the sense that it fits the definition of a "nation state". It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

I think that, in XXI century, we're realizing that the human race is not yet ready for globalization. Heck, we still can't even assimilate into respective cultures properly. People emigrate from places with problems, then insist the place they immigrated to should be like the place they emigrated from.

> People emigrate from places with problems, then insist the place they immigrated to should be like the place they emigrated from.

the majority of the time, the problems you speak of were caused by the big western powers in the first place

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#89

Post by LatteLazy » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

Every country needs to distance themselves from China until they sort out their food hygiene laws and they prove they can handle epidemics without lying. I have no problem with the Chinese people. But their government caused this and then lied to make it worse. You can't keep trading with someone like that.

Add in the treatment of minorities and the lack of progress towards democracy or rule of law, and they're basically North Korea with a working economy...

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#90

Post by blhack » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

rsweeney21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations exist to protect it's citizens. So yeah, as they should, each country is prioritizing their own needs before exporting any surplus to other countries. The challenge is no one really has any idea how much of the supplies they actually need. It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior.

> It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior. It's not surprising in the sense that it fits the definition of a "nation state". It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

The reason that the flight attendants tell you to put on your own mask before helping others is so you CAN help others, otherwise everybody dies.

Wether it cleanly fits into your political ideology or not, The United States is the most powerful country in the world, and in the coming years as less powerful countries work to stamp this out, we are going to be doing a lot to help them.

As the US goes, so goes the world. The US restricting medical supply exports looks bad on the short term, but it will end up being a net benefit to the planet.