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I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

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Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#131

Post by austincheney »

533474 wrote: post #117
brosinante wrote: post #100

You graduated in one of the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years and made it. Excellent.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> without punishing failure

Why not punish failure?

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#132

Post by nscalf »

pc86 wrote: post #127
533474 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> Our system is broken Citation needed. > humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure Serious question - why? You state this as an objective fact with no argument for it. > Failure [shouldn't] be hunger and homelessness If you're smart about it, it isn't. What's wrong with saying "yes you should probably have savings to fall back on in case this doesn't work out?" What's wrong with saying "if…

I think people are too quick to discount the importance of failure and feeling bad. If failing has no consequence, there will be far less motivation. However, in my opinion, this is a balance. Failure has to be sufficiently painful, but no more than that.

From the research I’ve done, two major items have made failure too painful: stagnant wages and rapidly inflating rent prices. People can no longer hold onto savings in case something doesn’t work because they barely make ends meet. Our system is inherently broken. We need unions, raises in minimum wage, worker strikes, etc. This is not going to be a generation of people going through economic hardship just because of the economy, but also because we are no longer willing to fight for each other.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#133

Post by [deleted] »

533474 wrote: post #117
brosinante wrote: post #100

You graduated in one of the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years and made it. Excellent.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

[deleted]

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#134

Post by zophosie »

hanoz wrote: post #129
notacoward wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unnecessarily rude. Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. The parallel still holds. Times will be hard relative to the recent peak, but compared to just about every other industry we'll still be pretty fat and happy. I know that's pretty thin consolation for people who are struggling to find jobs while their classmates from one year before were the subject of bidding wa…

> Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. In a lot of the world it's nowhere near as well paid as most of the professions which have comparable requirements in terms of the amount academic study, vocational apprenticeship and natural aptitude needed.

> In a lot of the world it's nowhere near as well paid as most of the professions which have comparable requirements in terms of the amount academic study, vocational apprenticeship and natural aptitude needed.

Teaching/Academia isn't a real job and can be replaced with the internet

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#136

Post by mc32 »

brosinante wrote: post #100

You graduated in one of the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years and made it. Excellent.

One thing that may be different here is that when we come out of this, there will be pent-up demand, for most industries and trades.

There will be some that will take a hit (the ones enjoying a surge now, like furniture, electronics, entertainment/distraction, PPE manufacturing, etc), but many categories will have pent up demand, some will recover slowly, some may never reach the levels we had before, still most I think will recover)

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#137

Post by swiley »

pc86 wrote: post #127
533474 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> Our system is broken Citation needed. > humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure Serious question - why? You state this as an objective fact with no argument for it. > Failure [shouldn't] be hunger and homelessness If you're smart about it, it isn't. What's wrong with saying "yes you should probably have savings to fall back on in case this doesn't work out?" What's wrong with saying "if…

You don’t have savings just after graduation.

Also: thinking about these people helps the rest of us, the economy is extremely fragile because most people aren’t able to save (high rent+low wages) and have limited mobility.

I used to think all the SWEs getting paid well would make the world a better place because they were more capable of dealing with complex problems but comments like this make me question that.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#138

Post by notacoward »

hanoz wrote: post #129
notacoward wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unnecessarily rude. Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. The parallel still holds. Times will be hard relative to the recent peak, but compared to just about every other industry we'll still be pretty fat and happy. I know that's pretty thin consolation for people who are struggling to find jobs while their classmates from one year before were the subject of bidding wa…

> Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. In a lot of the world it's nowhere near as well paid as most of the professions which have comparable requirements in terms of the amount academic study, vocational apprenticeship and natural aptitude needed.

What places and professions are you talking about? I'm genuinely curious. I've worked with programmers outside the US and Europe, and my impression was that programming was still one of the "easier" ways (in terms of training and credentials) to reach the upper economic strata.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#139

Post by yes_man »

zophosie wrote: post #134
hanoz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. In a lot of the world it's nowhere near as well paid as most of the professions which have comparable requirements in terms of the amount academic study, vocational apprenticeship and natural aptitude needed.

> In a lot of the world it's nowhere near as well paid as most of the professions which have comparable requirements in terms of the amount academic study, vocational apprenticeship and natural aptitude needed. Teaching/Academia isn't a real job and can be replaced with the internet

Teaching/academia being a job has nothing to do with the comment you replied to, and even if it were, I'm curious how would you replace academical research "with the internet"?

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#140

Post by einpoklum »

533474 wrote: post #117
brosinante wrote: post #100

You graduated in one of the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years and made it. Excellent.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> to encourage success

Scammers, arbitrage stock-traders, and opioid drug marketers can also achieve success... On the other hand, some endeavors "succeed" by not-failing and being out of sight and out of mind, e.g. a plumbing installation. You don't think of your "daily plumbing success".

So, I'd say not success which should be encouraged, it is well-directed and well-applied effort.

PS - The plumbing example can well be adapted to nearly any pursuit, definitely including software.

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