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Anton (Computer)

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21–30 of 48 posts

Re: Anton (Computer)

#21

All these years running laps around everyone else doing MD simulations - what do they have to show for it in terms of discoveries?

It is strange that their academic output isn't on par with some of the more prominent bio-molecular simulations research groups.

But I don't know much about their internals, perhaps, they're leasing a good bit of computer time to biotech companies.

Re: Anton (Computer)

#23
post #9

“The performance of a 512-node Anton machine is over 17,000 nanoseconds of simulated time per day for a protein-water system consisting of 23,558 atoms.[5] In comparison, MD codes running on general-purpose parallel computers with hundreds or thousands of processor cores achieve simulation rates of up to a few hundred nanoseconds per day on the same chemical system.” 17,000 ns of simulation per day sounds crazy small…

Using highly optimized code for that system size, I used to get ~500 ns per day using a single 2080.

Some references:

10^-3 ns - Hydrogen bond vibrations, 100+ ns - Protein side chains moving, 1000 - 10000 ns is the timescale of protein folding

Re: Anton (Computer)

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always assumed it was a reference to Anton LaVey (seemed appropriate for Gilfoyle to name his server after the founder of the church of satan). It would be interesting to know which theory is correct.

Good point, and while SV does have a lot of obscure references, this one may be a bit too obscure. Happy coincidence perhaps.

Gilfoyle refers to himself as a LaVeyan satanist early on in the show.

Re: Anton (Computer)

#25
post #9

“The performance of a 512-node Anton machine is over 17,000 nanoseconds of simulated time per day for a protein-water system consisting of 23,558 atoms.[5] In comparison, MD codes running on general-purpose parallel computers with hundreds or thousands of processor cores achieve simulation rates of up to a few hundred nanoseconds per day on the same chemical system.” 17,000 ns of simulation per day sounds crazy small…

[Disclaimer: I used to work at D. E. Shaw Research from 2011-2016]

The early Anton 1 numbers of 17us/day on 100K atoms were huge leap forward then. At that time, GPU-based simulations (e.g. GROMACS/Desmond on GPU) were doing single digit ns/day. Remember, even for 'fast-folding' proteins, the relaxation time is on the order of us and you need 100s of samples before you can converge statistical properties, like folding rates [0]. Anton 2 got a 50-100x speed-up [1] which made it much easier to look at druggable pathways. Anton was also used for studying other condensed matter systems, such as supercooled liquids [2].

Your question of why is this so slow or small is prescient. On the reasons that we have to integrate the dynamical equations (e.g. Newtonian or Hamiltonian mechanics) at small, femtosecond timesteps (1 fs = 1e-15s) is because the vibrational frequencies of bonds are on the order of picoseconds (1 ps = 1e-12s). Given that you also have to compute Omega(n^2) pairwise interactions between n particles, you end up having a large runtime to get to ns and us while respecting bond frequencies. The hard part, for atomistic/all-atom simulation is that n is on the order of 1e5-1e6 for a single protein with 100s of water molecules. The water molecules are extremely important to simulate exactly since you need to get polar phenomena, such as hydrogen bonding, correct to get folded structure and druggable sites correct to angstrom precision (1e-10 meters). If you don't do atomistic simulations (e.g. n is much smaller and you ignore complex physical interactions, including semi-quantum interactions), you have a much harder time matching precision experiments.

[0] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/334/6055/517

[1] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7012191/ [the variance comes from the fact that different physics models and densities cause very different run times -> evaluating 1/r^6 vs. 1/r^12 in fixed precision is very different w.r.t communication complexity and Ewald times and FFTs and ...]

[2] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp402102w

Re: Anton (Computer)

#26

I used to run simulations on this big guy :)

Without breaching NDA, do you think it was able to show outcomes which the naieve computer scientist would say justified the approach?

Re: Anton (Computer)

#27
post #25
post #9

“The performance of a 512-node Anton machine is over 17,000 nanoseconds of simulated time per day for a protein-water system consisting of 23,558 atoms.[5] In comparison, MD codes running on general-purpose parallel computers with hundreds or thousands of processor cores achieve simulation rates of up to a few hundred nanoseconds per day on the same chemical system.” 17,000 ns of simulation per day sounds crazy small…

[Disclaimer: I used to work at D. E. Shaw Research from 2011-2016] The early Anton 1 numbers of 17us/day on 100K atoms were huge leap forward then. At that time, GPU-based simulations (e.g. GROMACS/Desmond on GPU) were doing single digit ns/day. Remember, even for 'fast-folding' proteins, the relaxation time is on the order of us and you need 100s of samples before you can converge statistical properties, like foldin…

[deleted]

Re: Anton (Computer)

#28
post #25
post #9

“The performance of a 512-node Anton machine is over 17,000 nanoseconds of simulated time per day for a protein-water system consisting of 23,558 atoms.[5] In comparison, MD codes running on general-purpose parallel computers with hundreds or thousands of processor cores achieve simulation rates of up to a few hundred nanoseconds per day on the same chemical system.” 17,000 ns of simulation per day sounds crazy small…

[Disclaimer: I used to work at D. E. Shaw Research from 2011-2016] The early Anton 1 numbers of 17us/day on 100K atoms were huge leap forward then. At that time, GPU-based simulations (e.g. GROMACS/Desmond on GPU) were doing single digit ns/day. Remember, even for 'fast-folding' proteins, the relaxation time is on the order of us and you need 100s of samples before you can converge statistical properties, like foldin…

This explanation is interesting. Thanks for sharing it. While reading it, I got the impression that the simulation is not fully quantum mechanical, but rather classical with select quantum mechanical effects.

Which parts of quantum mechanics are idealised away and how do we know that not including them won't significantly reduce the quality of the result?

Are you possibly using stochastical noise in the simulations and repeat them multiple times, in the hope that whatever disturbance caused by the idealisation of the model is covered by the noise?

Re: Anton (Computer)

#29
post #28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: I used to work at D. E. Shaw Research from 2011-2016] The early Anton 1 numbers of 17us/day on 100K atoms were huge leap forward then. At that time, GPU-based simulations (e.g. GROMACS/Desmond on GPU) were doing single digit ns/day. Remember, even for 'fast-folding' proteins, the relaxation time is on the order of us and you need 100s of samples before you can converge statistical properties, like foldin…

This explanation is interesting. Thanks for sharing it. While reading it, I got the impression that the simulation is not fully quantum mechanical, but rather classical with select quantum mechanical effects. Which parts of quantum mechanics are idealised away and how do we know that not including them won't significantly reduce the quality of the result? Are you possibly using stochastical noise in the simulations a…

That's a good question and there are a number of ways to try to tackle this. One of the main reasons you cannot do QM simulations directly is that the high quality methods can cost Omega(n^6/eps) to get eps. relative accuracy (you can do better with DFT, but then you're making your life hard in other way). At a high-level (and I mean, 50,000 ft. level), here are the simplest way:

1) Do quantum mechanics simulations of interactions of a small number of atoms — two amino acids, two ethanol molecules. Then fit a classical function to the surface E[energy(radius between molecules, angles)], where this expectation operator is the quantum one (over some separable Hilbert space). Now use the approximation for E[energy(r, a)] to act as your classical potential. - Upshot: You use quantum mechanics to decide a classical potential for you (e.g. you chose the classical potential that factors into pairs such that each pair energy is 'closest' in the Hilbert space metric to the quantum surface) - Downside: You're doing this for small N — this ignores triplet and higher interactions. You're missing the variance and other higher moments (which is usually fine for biology, FWIW, but not for, say, the Aharanov-Bohm effect).

2) Path Integral methods: This involves running classical simulation for T timesteps, then sampling the 'quantum-sensitive pieces' (e.g. highly polar parts) in a stochastic way. This works because Wick rotation lets you go from Hamiltonian evolution operator e^{i L}, for a Lagrangian density L, to e^{-L} [0]. You can sample the last density via stochastic methods to add a SDE-like correction to your classical simulation. This way, you simulate the classical trajectory and have the quantum portions 'randomly' kick that trajectory based on a real Lagrangian.

3) DFT-augmented potentials: A little more annoying to describe, but think of this as a combination of the first two methods. A lot of the "Neural Network for MD" stuff falls closer in this category [1]

[0] Yes, assume L is absolutely continuous with regards to whatever metric-measure space and base measure you're defined over :) Physics is more flexible than math, so you can make such assumption and avoid thinking about nuclear spaces and atomic measures until really needed

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.02948

Re: Anton (Computer)

#30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me as well. It does seem that the whole point of being a billionaire is to do whatever you want. I can't imagine why so many seem to stick to managing their creations, which after a while can't be much fun.

Most billionaires got their wealth through inheritance. All they know is to manage the wealth creation agent that was handed down to them. Most of the self made ones too have spent a large chunk of their lives perfecting the wealth generation agent which made them rich. It would be like asking a pro NBA player to also take a shot at being a pro NFL player. It’s not what they trained for; they would need to learn a ne…

To fully connect the dots: after spending many years doing something really well, it can be humbling and depressing to try to extract purpose or identity from something you're comparatively terrible at. Impactful competence (or at least, the belief thereof) is a tough drug to come off of.
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