Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#11

Post by hirundo » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

Labor groups tend to thrive on restrictions. They benefit from many and often successfully lobby for exceptions to the others. They're natural opponents to a free market for labor. Larger corporations tend to be as well, since smaller competitors have more trouble complying, they get an advantage. So they cooperate with labor groups to oppose trends like the gig work.

I was surprised that the gig economy grew so far before the regulators started to crush it. I hope they don't get to finish the job.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#12

Post by xhkkffbf » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #4

xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

> I like the freedom. You do you, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view: that freedom might be great when you're young and equally free, but IMHO it doesn't work as well when you're 40 years old trying to ensure stable income to support your family

Why do you say "you do you?" The labor groups are working hard to make sure I can't do me. Nor can you or anyone else. You've got to work in the way that they approve. They're totally anti-freedom.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#13

Post by freepor » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

Governments have created the arbitrary bipartite distinction between employees and contractors. They need to create a third category for gig workers that accommodates the flexibility that these workers desire while also giving them the labor protections they need in the asymmetric power relationship with their employer.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#14

Post by astrodust » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #4

xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

> I like the freedom. You do you, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view: that freedom might be great when you're young and equally free, but IMHO it doesn't work as well when you're 40 years old trying to ensure stable income to support your family

22: "I like freedom! I can work whatever job I want, and so long as I'm living with my parents, most of my income is something I can spend!"

42: "My health insurance premiums are $2000 a month, my automotive insurance is another $500, rent is $1500, and I only make $3000 a month because I'm being out-bid by freeloading 22 year olds."

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#15

Post by itake » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #4

xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

> I like the freedom. You do you, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view: that freedom might be great when you're young and equally free, but IMHO it doesn't work as well when you're 40 years old trying to ensure stable income to support your family

I am not 40, but I currently work a full time job and a couple part time jobs because I enjoy what I do and I like getting paid for what I do.

Right now, it can be challenging to find part time work that I can do alongside my day job, because the laws are just so weird. As a result, I have less choices for part-time work.

Having multiple jobs also provides stability. If one income stream is down, I still have the others. If they are all gone, then I have that 130% income from the last 6-10 months banked away.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#16

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

xhkkffbf wrote: post #7

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Decouple healthcare from employment (Universal healthcare) * Enable robust safety nets so lack of enough gig work doesn’t mean someone is homeless or goes hungry. Can we find middle ground? People can’t live good lives with excessive uncertainty and stress, and quality of life is what we should optimize for (like New Zealand is attempting), versus GDP. I concede gig work type employment has a place in our modern ec…

The safety nets in the US are independent of the businesses. It's not like having a "full-time job" is a safety net. Ask all of the "full-time" employees at airlines, restaurants, hotels and other places discovered after COVID-19 hit. I'm totally cool with decoupling health insurance. I think Uber would love that. The great thing about the independent contractor life that Uber is expousing is that you can have your f…

You cannot have your four day work week if your gig work income doesn't cover your rent, food, and healthcare (non-discretionary expenses) and you have no other income.

We're arguing where the quality of life floor is.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#17

Post by itake » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

xhkkffbf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, sure, but then you go and get one of those jobs. It's not like banning gig workers will make those jobs appear. If there's 3000 hours of work to be done, a business will hire one worker to do 2000 hours and turn down the 1000 hours of work. A business can't magically "round up". The money for the extra work needs to come from somewhere.

If your business doesn't generate enough revenue to hire staff for the work you want done, you're unable to hire the staff. There's plenty of work to be done if we don't have to pay anyone anything, there is a reason we don't permit that though.

As a someone that works full time and freelances on the side, I love working for businesses that only need me for 15-20 hours per week.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#18

Post by tathougies » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

xhkkffbf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safety nets in the US are independent of the businesses. It's not like having a "full-time job" is a safety net. Ask all of the "full-time" employees at airlines, restaurants, hotels and other places discovered after COVID-19 hit. I'm totally cool with decoupling health insurance. I think Uber would love that. The great thing about the independent contractor life that Uber is expousing is that you can have your f…

You cannot have your four day work week if your gig work income doesn't cover your rent, food, and healthcare (non-discretionary expenses) and you have no other income. We're arguing where the quality of life floor is.

Downvoted because this is true of any job. You cannot have a five day 9-5 work week if your salary income doesn't cover your rent, food, and healthcare and you have no other income. Gig work is no more or less special than that.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#19

Post by tathougies » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #4

xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

> I like the freedom. You do you, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view: that freedom might be great when you're young and equally free, but IMHO it doesn't work as well when you're 40 years old trying to ensure stable income to support your family

Then find another job?

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#20

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #18

toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot have your four day work week if your gig work income doesn't cover your rent, food, and healthcare (non-discretionary expenses) and you have no other income. We're arguing where the quality of life floor is.

Downvoted because this is true of any job. You cannot have a five day 9-5 work week if your salary income doesn't cover your rent, food, and healthcare and you have no other income. Gig work is no more or less special than that.

Full time employment comes with benefits and protections gig work does not (the entire point of this article).