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Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

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Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#51

Post by VBprogrammer »

zo1 wrote: post #38
toomuchtodo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital signatures also have legal status in the US. Until society catches up and uses cryptographic primitives provided by a national ID smart card (such that Estonia has) for authorizing intents, this is a satisfactory method to make document execution less painful. This project is already doing the easy part (“place pretty signature picture here”). Depending on your jurisdiction and their tolerance, you could also…

All the more baffling why some countries are moving away from national identification and other digital signing initiatives to prove identity. E.g. the UK that introduced and then subsequently dismantled a national ID card and database (apparently it was a "privacy" issue for the government to have a record of citizens?). Imagine this, a first world country, living in the dark ages essentially when it comes to identi…

Just for what it's worth, a big part of the backlash against the national ID is that firstly we have a couple of decent proxies, for example driving licence and passport, and secondly we were being asked to pay for the privilege.

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#52

Post by dd36 »

cgrand-net wrote: post #39
jonchang wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: "For bureaucratic reasons, a colleague of mine had to print, sign, scan and send by email a high number of pages. To save trees, ink, time, and to stick it to the bureaucrats, I wrote this script." So yes, it does seem like there are situations where a "digital" signature is insufficient.

My bank used to reject scans but accept faxes... bureaucratic reasons.

Faxes are considered secure.

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#53

Post by Cthulhu_ »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #6

I don't get the magical power of a signature at all. Everybody can write my name under a document. This project basically allows you to forge your own signature. Is it still legally binding? Do these rules even remember the original intent?

I don't understand it either; as others pointed out as well, I can't do a consistent signature even if I tried to (I've always had trouble with writing, and I barely do anything outside of shopping lists and a paper calendar nowadays).

I've always thought that as long as you can recognize your own signature and declare in a court of law, under oath, that the signature is or is not yours then it's fine.

It's still not foolproof though. An ex of my GF forged her signature and took out a loan in her name. They're still on her ass about that one, despite her claims that the signature isn't hers. They're not taking it to court though, they probably don't have a case. Doesn't stop them from harassing though.

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#54

Post by kawsper »

mikehollinger wrote: post #9

Mac’s pdf viewer Preview has a signature capture feature built in that’s pretty slick. I use it all the time and haven’t encountered an objection. Tbh I’d wonder why you need to fuzz up and fake scan the image. If someone’s requiring that the doc be “signed in ink” or some such, more power to you!

I wonder if you can use "print to PDF" after the signature has been attached to the PDF.

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#55

Post by jabroni_salad »

arkanciscan wrote: post #19
jabroni_salad wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The act of marking the sig field shows your intent to bind to the contract. You can digitally sign but there are a couple extra steps to confirm the intent and identity that aren't hard but are just hard enough to make DocuSign a lot of money and leave everybody else to print/sign/scan their stuff.

So you're saying the signature itself is irrelevant? It's just an elaborate checkbox? The question then is how do you prove I was the guy who checked the box?

Actually yes. You can mark with an X, and that was somewhat common when the literacy rate wasn't as good as it is now. The answer to your last question is to have witnesses, either in person or proxied via a notary.

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#58

Post by mattkrause »

mannykannot wrote: post #26
arkanciscan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if you aren't the one who forged your own signature? How are you going to prove that someone else scribbled something on a PDF?

The forging of a signature has always been a possibility, which is why witnesses are required for the important stuff. On the other hand, you would be right in thinking that there is a somewhat anachronistic element of theater in having signatures on electronic documents.

In some ways, the theater is the point: the more elaborate the “production”, the easier it is to demonstrate that the required “meeting of the minds” took place.

Someone might blithely—-or accidentally—-click continue, but you can’t really sleepwalk your way through signing a document or lining up witnesses to the signing.

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#59

Post by propinquity »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #6

I don't get the magical power of a signature at all. Everybody can write my name under a document. This project basically allows you to forge your own signature. Is it still legally binding? Do these rules even remember the original intent?

The Uniform Commercial Code [1] in the United States says that:

> A signature may be made (i) manually or by means of a device or machine, and (ii) by the use of any name, including a trade or assumed name, or by a word, mark, or symbol executed or adopted by a person with present intention to authenticate a writing.

IANAL but I would think that this program would fall under "by means of a device" and thus be considered valid.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-401

Re: Show HN: FalsiScan – Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#60

Post by recursive »

cgrand-net wrote: post #39
jonchang wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: "For bureaucratic reasons, a colleague of mine had to print, sign, scan and send by email a high number of pages. To save trees, ink, time, and to stick it to the bureaucrats, I wrote this script." So yes, it does seem like there are situations where a "digital" signature is insufficient.

My bank used to reject scans but accept faxes... bureaucratic reasons.

I don't know directly, but I've heard that there are special laws regarding fraud via fax. Even though fax has no technical protection, it may have legal ones, that might give the counterparty some recourse if things went bad.
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