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Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

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Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you assume that yourself are the number guy and know better, so what is the equation that will determine when lockdown is more efficient? what are the inputs in that equation ? Why car deaths would be a factor in why you should implement a lockdown. If you go to a hospital with a illness X would you like a response like "X kills less then cars in our country, until traffic laws are fixed we decided you can suffer…

I think it's fair to do death vs death. Especially if Corona disproportionately affects people who have lived 60+ years already. Car deaths affect people of all ages. The economic collapse and scare has caused people to cancel or delay surgeries, dental work, physical therapy, buy newer and safer cars, home abuse has gone up, I imagine exercise has gone down, I wonder how alcohol use has changed. You can quantify the…

But why cars? It would make sense if you are an extreme capitalist to put money in the equation, how much a life costs, how much lockdown costs, how much it costs to find a cure, how much it costs to let everyone sick die but it would make no sense to bring cars into this, think about it your calculation would be different depending on the country or state, like if you are in the country with horible driving bad luck now you will also die from covid.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#64
post #46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not even that good as a number guy... Current global stats as I write are: 1446242 confirmed, 83424 deaths which in my calculator is giving 5% not 0,5%

keyword here is confirmed. Many of us carry the virus and are untested (or "unconfirmed") so that 5% number is likely to massively decrease to around 0.5% at some point if (second keyword), governments decide to implement large scale testing.

But if you also would consider that without the lockdown the number would have been worse you need to adjust the numbers to reflect a larger infection rate and a collapsed health care where everyone with complication is dead.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#65
post #51

Dr. Michael J. Burry, M.D. (Vanderbilt) , setup a twitter account[1] just to address some of the negative consequences of overreacting to covid-19. He's not normally a social media type, to say the least. [1] https://twitter.com/michaeljburry

Yeah he’s pitching that California has already reached herd immunity.

The premise is that covid-19 arrived in fall and that unlike everywhere else in the world, it arrived, spread without so much as being noticed at the ER.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#66
post #51

Dr. Michael J. Burry, M.D. (Vanderbilt) , setup a twitter account[1] just to address some of the negative consequences of overreacting to covid-19. He's not normally a social media type, to say the least. [1] https://twitter.com/michaeljburry

Yeah he’s pitching that California has already reached herd immunity. The premise is that covid-19 arrived in fall and that unlike everywhere else in the world, it arrived, spread without so much as being noticed at the ER.

To clarify why that's a crazy premise: Italy

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#67
post #51

Dr. Michael J. Burry, M.D. (Vanderbilt) , setup a twitter account[1] just to address some of the negative consequences of overreacting to covid-19. He's not normally a social media type, to say the least. [1] https://twitter.com/michaeljburry

When on the other hand I hear of states arguing over masks and ventilators, and of NY being over capacity, I can't empathize with his current advocacy for an immediate loosening of stay-at-home orders (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-07/michael-b...), as well as sentiments like this https://twitter.com/michaeljburry/status/1247338200269389824

> Domestic violence "flourishing." This happening right now. Infuriating that governments sacrificed these women and children with blockhead policies lacking all nuance and understanding. Politicians and media ran roughshod over these victims. #COVID19

It's ironic that in the same tweet that he criticizes governments for lacking all nuance, he fails to note that the two anecdotes reported in the story come from China and Spain, which are among the hardest hit, which are likely the most justified for harsh measures and lockdowns.

He does point out many severe negative consequences, but they seem to be based off wrong assumptions. There is no universal testing because there are not enough tests.

There is no recommendation for the seemingly promising drugs because afaict there is not enough to meet demand. I don't see why "But there is no time for that." If there isn't enough of it anyway.

The situation may change but his current unnuanced criticism that doesn't seem to address aspects of his recommendation that seem to me need to be addressed does not convince me.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fair to do death vs death. Especially if Corona disproportionately affects people who have lived 60+ years already. Car deaths affect people of all ages. The economic collapse and scare has caused people to cancel or delay surgeries, dental work, physical therapy, buy newer and safer cars, home abuse has gone up, I imagine exercise has gone down, I wonder how alcohol use has changed. You can quantify the…

But why cars? It would make sense if you are an extreme capitalist to put money in the equation, how much a life costs, how much lockdown costs, how much it costs to find a cure, how much it costs to let everyone sick die but it would make no sense to bring cars into this, think about it your calculation would be different depending on the country or state, like if you are in the country with horible driving bad luck…

Because we will always drive cars, and in 5 years there will be no coronavirus. Would it have been better to spend our resources on more complex airbag systems that would last as long as humans drive or a lockdown to save our oldest population for 3 years?

I think this math problem is easier than we would like, but politically it's unpopular.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#69

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

Medical spends literally billions of dollars to regulate out competition. Then they can't handle demand. Blame them and corrupt politicians. Also pandemics mean either 70 percent of people will catch it, or we need a vaccine. Why even quarentine? Flatten the curve so we can die on ventilators instead?

The statistics I've seen floating around lately are that ~80% of people who go on the ventilators die.

But keep in mind that 20% of the people who go on the ventilators live. Flattening the curve means that, if you reach the point of requiring a ventilator -- and we haven't run out of ventilators -- your chance of survival goes from 0% to 20%. It's not 100% or even 50%, but it's a lot better than 0%.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally I have found it is the older half (latter middle age) that are less likely to take it seriously ironically and likely to complain about inconveniences or that they are "overreacting". I blame Fox News for it, they are outright the world's largest elder abuse network. Personally I suspect the abysmal leadership and the utterly corrupt fuck ups in preparations who spent more time insider trading than stocki…

Maybe it’s that older people are more used to the concept of death, so show less fear. When I was 30, the sudden acceleration in the number of people I knew dying was incredible. Aunts, uncles, friends, teachers all started to die from complications of old age. At first I was shocked, but soon I became jaded since there’s nothing you can do about other people getting old. Once you get so used to that, it’s seen as an…

older people also more conscious of the risk they expose themselves to in day-to-day life. my aunt died of a catastrophic infection last year. the precipitating event was a slip in the shower where she broke her leg. when taking a shower or going down stairs exposes you to a nontrivial risk of death, it probably doesn't seem that bad to go to the grocery store more often than you need to.
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