Someone is stealing your life (1990) • Hacker News Board

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#101

Post by rbarooah » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 8:45 PM UTC

rick888 wrote: post #97

rbarooah wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a list of these 'many' different systems that have been tried. It seems to me as though we've tried 'kings/dictators' lots of times, and we've watched communism devolve into 'kings/dictators', and we may very well be in the process of watching capitalism devolve into 'kings/dictators' as wealth and political power seem to being concentrated more and more in the hands of a small group. I personally agr…

"It seems to me as though we've tried 'kings/dictators' lots of times, and we've watched communism devolve into 'kings/dictators', and we may very well be in the process of watching capitalism devolve into 'kings/dictators' as wealth and political power seem to being concentrated more and more in the hands of a small group." Why is it concentrated into a small group? Everyone seems to think the answer is to take the…

I assume you think that the bailouts of the financial system were earned, and that school is optional for kids who don't like following silly or time-wasting instructions.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#102

Post by rick888 » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 8:47 PM UTC

grammaton wrote: post #89

stonemetal wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a straw man attack. Lack of direction, and ambition doesn't mean lazy or unmotivated. His job choices show lack of direction, with the random job walk he has done so far he certainly isn't moving in one direction. Same with ambition there doesn't seem to be any greatness seeking in his job selection.

Again - you don't know what his internal process was for picking these jobs. You can't mind read and impute motivations for his selections. And no, it's not a strawman. Lack of direction, lack of ambition, lazy, unmotivated. See how they all go together?

"Again - you don't know what his internal process was for picking these jobs. You can't mind read and impute motivations for his selections."

Well, it's obviously not working for the guy. He has clearly voiced his dissatisfaction with his life, which includes the jobs that he has taken. Someone that is doing what they love, even if it isn't making that much money, will be happy.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#103

Post by Tichy » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 8:48 PM UTC

astrofinch wrote: post #68

rwl wrote: post #26

The upshot of this piece is much more significant than the comments here have been willing to admit. Yes, you can write the author off as having a whiny, blame-others attitude. Yes, you can say that if he would just take matters into his own hands, the path of entrepreneurship is hard but ultimately rewarding. And maybe that's right. But if you say that, then you have already accepted a premise that the piece is call…

Self-sacrifice isn't the only way to survive. It's just the only way to achieve the median modern standard of living. If you're happy with a lower standard of living it's not hard to survive without working. http://www.couchsurfing.org/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/frzzq/iama_prolific_du...

I don't think couchsurfing and dumpster diving would scale to the masses.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#104

Post by rick888 » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 8:51 PM UTC

grammaton wrote: post #66

Tycho wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is why do we currently occupy this very rich and priveleged perioud of history - because we took Michael Ventura's advice 20 years ago and abandoned capitalism?

That brings us to the follow up question of, if a small number of people are privileged during a small part of history, does that mean that the rest of it - filled as it was with problems and exploitation - is no longer a problem, and the critiques are no longer valid? Just because capitalism works some of the time for a few of the people, doesn't mean that it's above criticism, and has no problems. Since the majorit…

"Just because capitalism works some of the time for a few of the people, doesn't mean that it's above criticism, and has no problems."

Capitalism works for more than "just a few people" "some of the time". No system is perfect.

"Since the majority of folks on HN have benefited from capitalism, it's not surprising that they are not as open to hearing criticisms of it."

and why have they benefited from it? Because they were all born rich? Capitalism benefits people that want to put the time and effort into it.

All of your responses so far have been you, crapping on capitalism. Where is your alternative?

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#105

Post by nhangen » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 8:57 PM UTC

grammaton wrote: post #61

nhangen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's true, but if the market doesn't pay you what you feel you are worth, then you have the option to build something that does pay you what you are worth. It's not up to me, as a boss, to take care of someone.

" then you have the option to build something that does pay you what you are worth." It's just that simple then? Starting a business is a risky and difficult proposition, and few people are cut out for it - and of those, even fewer realistically have the option to do so. Not everyone can build their way out of a problem, and it has little to do with their free will. If that's the case you can't argue that it's their…

It's not easy, and that's the point. You can take the easy road, which is to get a job and work for someone, hoping that you haven't wasted your life away, or you can take the hard road and build something.

Both have benefits, and both have risks. There's no easy ticket, at least in this life, so employer and employee have to meet in the middle. The market helps that happen.

You had me until your last point, which was when you used the term exploit. I think that tells the tale right there.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#106

Post by rick888 » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 9:00 PM UTC

grammaton wrote: post #80

Calamitous wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything in life is a choice. Often it's a choice between two bad options-- that's life. Covering your ears and humming loudly at the problem doesn't eliminate your responsibility to address it; nor the consequences for doing so.

Sorry, this one is a tad ambiguous. By "humming loudly at the problem," are you talking about addressing problems in your own life, a'la the dominant theme of this thread, or addressing the problems of capitalism as suggested by the author of the article?

"addressing the problems of capitalism as suggested by the author of the article?"

and what problems are those?

That not everyone comes out on top? Of course this is the case. I am interested in alternatives that don't involve limiting the success of the people that are actually creating wealth or taking exorbitant amounts of money through taxes.

When you've lived long enough, you realize that there aren't many ideas that are truly unique. Most "new" ideas are just old ideas that have been sugar-coated to make them more palatable. So I'm waiting for your new and unique idea that will somehow give people a better chance at life, success, an freedom than capitalism.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#107

Post by zooey » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 9:02 PM UTC

I think you have some problem connecting with his view of the society how-it-should-be. You move in a given universe and you accept the rules: you by the way want to use that rules and accept the consequences on society and mankind of those rules. He think differently. He, among many others, think rules are wrong and the outcome is a wrong society.

Dismissing what he says is dismissing philosophy or sociology, disciplines that for their very nature do not accept the status quo and want to test the rules our world is based on.

By the way, after reading some of his writing, I can say that he writes really damn well.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#108

Post by grammaton » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 9:04 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #90

grammaton wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False analogy. You can choose not to go to a restaurant if you don't want to pay the markup. You cannot choose not to work if you enjoy not starving.

Yes you can. You just have to adjust your expectations. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Freeganism Note: these ideas do not necessarily reflect the views of the management

Ah, so all you have to do is be willing to live like a scavenger and adjust to a third-world standard of living.

Well that seems reasonable.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#109

Post by rick888 » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 9:04 PM UTC

rbarooah wrote: post #101

rick888 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It seems to me as though we've tried 'kings/dictators' lots of times, and we've watched communism devolve into 'kings/dictators', and we may very well be in the process of watching capitalism devolve into 'kings/dictators' as wealth and political power seem to being concentrated more and more in the hands of a small group." Why is it concentrated into a small group? Everyone seems to think the answer is to take the…

I assume you think that the bailouts of the financial system were earned, and that school is optional for kids who don't like following silly or time-wasting instructions.

"I assume you think that the bailouts of the financial system were earned"

Of course they weren't earned.

"that school is optional for kids who don't like following silly or time-wasting instructions."

No, but I do have a problem with the teacher's unions. It's the reason shitty teachers continue to stay employed in our school systems.

I actually wish that parents had the option of taking their tax dollars and using it toward a private school. It might force school systems to actually improve, or lose funding. People sure hate monopolies, but don't mind when the government essentially does the same exact thing.

Re: Someone is stealing your life (1990)

#110

Post by grammaton » Wed, Mar 02, 2011, 9:06 PM UTC

rick888 wrote: post #102

grammaton wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again - you don't know what his internal process was for picking these jobs. You can't mind read and impute motivations for his selections. And no, it's not a strawman. Lack of direction, lack of ambition, lazy, unmotivated. See how they all go together?

"Again - you don't know what his internal process was for picking these jobs. You can't mind read and impute motivations for his selections." Well, it's obviously not working for the guy. He has clearly voiced his dissatisfaction with his life, which includes the jobs that he has taken. Someone that is doing what they love, even if it isn't making that much money, will be happy.

"Well, it's obviously not working for the guy. He has clearly voiced his dissatisfaction with his life, which includes the jobs that he has taken."

Yes, but it does not follow that he is therefore directionless or lacks ambition. Plenty of successful doctors and lawyers have the same problem.

"Someone that is doing what they love, even if it isn't making that much money, will be happy."

Over simplification. I have known numerous people who loved what they where doing without being very happy about the things that came along with that. Artists, musicians, teachers. Just because you love what you do doesn't automatically make you happy, believe it or not.