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Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

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Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#11

Post by jimktrains2 »

> At the ACLU, we have always recognized that, during a disease outbreak, individual rights must sometimes give way to the greater good. After all, when it comes to disease, we are not just individuals but also one big bio-mass. That is why people can sometimes be deprived of their liberty through quarantine, for example. And this is as it should be, provided — and this is a crucial and sometimes violated condition — that the science supports the effectiveness and proportionality of measures such as quarantine. And even if a quarantine is imposed, people do not lose their due process rights, which at a minimum require that they be able to challenge their quarantine.

- https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/can-we-trust-the...

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#12

Post by Nasrudith »

swiley wrote: post #4
hurricanetc wrote: post #2

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

A lot of people can’t help it, we beat them into the dirt and now they don’t have a choice. Also there’s the (probably correct) expectation that corporations and governments will abuse a lot of the emergency provisions and that feeds the rebellion. Also, it shouldn’t be surprising that young people react with apathy toward a large problem like this when older people have at best reacted towards their problems with ap…

Anecdotally I have found it is the older half (latter middle age) that are less likely to take it seriously ironically and likely to complain about inconveniences or that they are "overreacting". I blame Fox News for it, they are outright the world's largest elder abuse network.

Personally I suspect the abysmal leadership and the utterly corrupt fuck ups in preparations who spent more time insider trading than stocking up on medical supplies back when there was fully functioning industrty undermines the legitimacy greatly. How can they ask others to take them seriously when they didn't? The tracking is just plain Reichstagging at this point.

And the worst part is that the threat is real and the leadership being corrupt morons doesn't change that.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#13

Post by vsareto »

soraminazuki wrote: post #8
hurricanetc wrote: post #2

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

> I don’t blame governments. I blame all you idiots who won’t stop going outside. It's precisely this kind of reasoning that this article is having problems with. Pre-COVID19, it was because of the terrorists, drug dealers, and pedophiles that we'd have to give up our freedoms. Now, it's because of "us idiots." We the people are "too idiotic" to decide for ourselves, or so you say.

Unless you're an epidemiological or virology expert, you probably are too ignorant to make sound decisions to save lives and prevent damage on a state/national scale for COVID-19. That's not a knock against you, it's just that most of us don't know the details of the many fields of science that go into our daily lives. I have no idea when/if to do mass vehicle recalls in the automotive industry, where to deploy military units for maximum safety like a commanding officer, or how to navigate law with respect to police department enforcing the law in the legal system.

The key difference that didn't settle in with people quickly enough is that they could cause damage with little or no symptoms by just being near other people. Because of how this particular virus works, that meant changing behavior by the time it affected you directly was too late. Many field-ignorant people only change their behavior when it directly affects them.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#14

Post by coffeefirst »

hurricanetc wrote: post #2

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

Going outside is fine and recommended.

Compliance, at least here, has been petty good. Imperfect, sure, but everyone I see out walking is keeping a safe distance.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#15

Post by chatmasta »

nimbius wrote: post #7

the source reporting the US surveillance is kinda murky at best. Apparently the US sources their information from ad trackers and a company called lotadata which has a "geospatial AI platform " if most of the tracking data is coming from FAANG its nothing new, however, it may not exactly be accurate with the latest iphone and android devices which have fairly overt controls for the user to restrict data collection.

I’m speculating here, but it’s probably a data broker that gets location data from apps that share it as part of an advertising SDK. Users still need to enable location sharing. So the data ends selects for a cohort of people that installs sketchy apps and grants location permission. Ironically, this is probably the group of people least likely to follow social distancing guidelines.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#16

Post by programmarchy »

hurricanetc wrote: post #2

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

It’s not a simple request for people living paycheck to paycheck. We could’ve shut down international travel, implemented UBI or expanded Medicare instead of trillions in corporate bailouts. It’s laughable to blame idiot citizens for the scale of the devastation, but a convenient scapegoat to shift the focus away from the ones in power who could’ve made the most difference.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#17

Post by thendrill »

hurricanetc wrote: post #2

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

So is it not the governments choise to have stupid idiots? I mean who's responsibility is to educate them?

I am pretty sure that you had no problem that an IT consultant or a lawyer is making more money than a nurse or a teacher?

I am also sure you had no problem that government is spending more on defence that Healthcare.

So please, before you start blaming anything on "stupid people", how about you try to hold your government responsible for these oversights before you start giving up 'our' freedoms.

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#18

Post by seeTheAstroturf »

hurricanetc wrote: post #2

It’s too bad that people can’t follow simple requests. Governments are forced to choose between allowing idiot citizens to destroy society or to implement draconian policies. Medical professionals are being asked to come out of retirement. Nurses are reusing PPE for weeks. Medical students are graduating early to help. The rest of us are being asked to just stay the fuck home for a few weeks. And we just refuse to do…

Medical spends literally billions of dollars to regulate out competition. Then they can't handle demand. Blame them and corrupt politicians.

Also pandemics mean either 70 percent of people will catch it, or we need a vaccine. Why even quarentine?

Flatten the curve so we can die on ventilators instead?

Re: Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control

#20

Post by seeTheAstroturf »

Death rates are at 0.5%, and it was worth shutting down the economy.

Car accident death rates are at 1%. Wait until people hear about that.

The bigger shock is when people realize that you can't stop the spread of a pandemic. You can flatten the curve to help hospitals. But soon we will find hospitals are more dangerous than staying at home due to infections and that respirators barely improve your chance of survival.

I hope medical loses their credibility big time. Their rejection of math and science in favor of tradition is horrifying.

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