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The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

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Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#91

Post by stronglikedan »

swiley wrote: post #41
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

There are still people denying it? Everyone I knew in that camp has been convinced.

People are skeptical of the numbers, and rightly so. Unfortunately, this crisis has gotten to the point where you can't criticize any part of the response without being lumped into the "denier" category. For instance, I am not convinced that masks are more helpful to healthy people than they are harmful, and that is really my only criticism thus far, but whenever I mention that in an online forum, I'm dismissed as a complete denier.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#92

Post by danemorgan »

laszlokorte wrote: post #19
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

Almost no one dies "of" diabetes. It's a stroke, a heart attack, or an infection that kills you. But the stroke, heart attack or infection would never have happened if you hadn't had diabetes.

This is the difference between proximate and ultimate causes.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#93

Post by 2008guy »

stingraycharles wrote: post #88
2008guy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That final tally of bodies is a drop in the bucket of 7 billion, as I have already pointed out.

You're comparing millions of death in the US to the world population. It would be more fair to either use the expected number of deaths worldwide if we just continued our business, or compare it to the total population of the US.

My friend, take the number of people who end up dying after herd immunity and compare it to the population that it infected. If it’s more than a drop in the proverbial bucket, then please excuse me.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#94

Post by arel »

2008guy wrote: post #82
arel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if we follow your premise that this is hysteria and we go back to work how many absolute numbers of people will die vs other causes of preventable death? Herd immunity would still mean millions of dead people you'd have to step over. The countries that thought they could go this route did a hard reverse once reality hit them.

That final tally of bodies is a drop in the bucket of 7 billion, as I have already pointed out.

Big numerator / bigger denominator doesn't make the numerator go away.

Are you going to atoms in the universe next?

So following this logic lets shut down all hospitals and stop treating all illnesses?

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#95

Post by cfontes »

igetspam wrote: post #89
cfontes wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pig one is very nice, I like this one “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Attributed to Mark Twain

Unless you know pigs. I can assure you they don't actually like it. They prefer clean water but go with mud because it's usually available. Wrestling with them in anything makes them unhappy (they're prey animals and it's instinctual). The only way to get a pig to do something like that and MAYBE be OK with it is food. I usually fill a kiddie pool with fresh water and Cheerios, to bathe them. The trick it to bathe th…

That is cool! Thanks for the info, this is why HN is awesome. COVID topic, and all of a sudden you learn every children book is wrong!

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#96

Post by JoeAltmaier »

2008guy wrote: post #93
stingraycharles wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing millions of death in the US to the world population. It would be more fair to either use the expected number of deaths worldwide if we just continued our business, or compare it to the total population of the US.

My friend, take the number of people who end up dying after herd immunity and compare it to the population that it infected. If it’s more than a drop in the proverbial bucket, then please excuse me.

I see there's no use in arguing, as the same pointless statement gets parroted back each time.

This disease is now the #1 cause of death in America. Nothing like a trifling total; nothing like a drop; nothing like an ignorable fraction. Very, very significant.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#97

Post by tomohawk »

Take a look at https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

This chart in particular:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-deaths-covid-19?cou...

It's showing a doubling of daily confirmed deaths since last week. This is a lagging statistic, of course, but it's one of the more firm ones.

The total confirmed deaths can be seen here:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-deaths-covid-19?cou...

To put this into perspective, we're about halfway to the 23,000 flu deaths in the US for the entire flu season this year. At the current rate, though, we'll be past that by next week.

For more perspective, the 1957 Asian Flu killed about 70,000 people in the US (1 - 2 million worldwide), and our population at that time was 177 million (about half of today).

According to this chart:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-daily-dea...

we may be just at the start of bending the curve.

We're a much larger country than some of the others shown in our group (add Italy, France, UK, Spain, and Germany, and we still have more people).

EDIT:

According to: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1957-1958-pandemi...

The number of deaths for the 1957 Asian Flu in the US was 116,000, at a time when we had half the population of today.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#98

Post by panpanna »

loriverkutya wrote: post #22
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

Some people does not seems to have any other type of learning skill on some topics. Let them learn from their own experience or let them see it with their own eyes. There is a theory that anti-vacc is on the rise, because people does not know anybody who suffered from the grave consequences of the diseases which we have vaccines to prevent. The same probably applies to the COVID-19. That's why I'm wondering, why the…

> I'm wondering, why the news are not full of videos about what is happing in the hospitals

Funny you mentioned that. The reason most EU citizens are okay with the lockdown is a video from Lombardi showing doctors removing an old man from a respirator (basically killing him) to save a younger man.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#99

Post by rob74 »

qtplatypus wrote: post #85
laszlokorte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

Dr's are not going to say that person who was asymptomatic but was infected with covid-19 died of it if there was something else. However they are going to record that the person was infected because that information is useful for later medical/epidemiological research. However there is also a good chance that even if covid-19 isn't the only contributor to a person's death. For example a person with heart disease can…

See also https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/heart-failure/qa/what-is...

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#100

Post by mc32 »

bregma wrote: post #78
mc32 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could help develop a strategy and protocol for opening the economy if it mostly of greatly affects people with identifiable preëxisting conditions.

So, "they were going to die anyway." This just in: we're all going to die anyway. When you're lying on your deathbed drowning in the effluvia of necrotic lung tissue at least you can rest easy in the knowledge that your humanity didn't count and you're just a statistic, but at least you helped a wealthy person avoid not making as much money as he could have.

That’s not it. You develop a protocol to avoid as much as possible exposing those who are susceptible to the disease if that can be determined.

If we know that one part of the population can withstand the disease well and another is susceptible to it we can develop ways to navigate that.

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