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The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

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Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#31

Post by pfdietz »

laszlokorte wrote: post #19
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

The sheer mass of dead bodies will be refuting it soon, if it hasn't already. Unless the deniers want to posit a massive increase in non-Covid deaths that mimics a pandemic.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#32

Post by Insanity »

laszlokorte wrote: post #19
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

First of all, I'm not a medical professional!

I think it's impossible (with the current state of technology) to determine the actual cause in patients with comorbidities. The patients died _with_ coronavirus in these statistics rather than _from_ coronavirus.

Anyway, it's hard to argue with those people. But if you look at the average deaths a country has per month, and see the increase because of Covid, you should be able to infer something is wrong with just a bit of common sense.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#33

Post by rjtavares »

mmmmmyumyum wrote: post #11

How do you know that this was the cause of death when all we know is that these people were tested positive on Covid19 before they died? Not denying that Covid19 is a thing and measures are necessary but I think this question is valid when reading such headlines.

All mortality cause numbers are estimates, and the method is clearly stated in the website.

The title of the submission is somewhat misleading (we can't really say that the leading cause of death on that day was COVID-19), but the information is the best we have and it's helpful to make sense of the current crisis.

What you're asking can only be done months from now, once we have numbers for all deaths and their official causes.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#34

Post by cfontes »

yetihehe wrote: post #30
cfontes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution was to give up. I was stressing too much over it and it drives me insane people are so stubborn without any data to back their claims. If provided data they just wave it aside with a random argument and move immediately on to another topic within the subject criticizing something else, so you have to keep extremely sharp in all topics or they just swing from side to side until they find a topic you have n…

There are two sayings which sum up this situation rather well. > Arguing with stupid is like wrestling with pig in mud. After some time you see that pig seems to like it. > Arguing with stupid is like playing chess with a pigeon. It will topple figures, shit in board and be proud of winning. The problem is when their stupidity affects your life.

The pig one is very nice, I like this one

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Attributed to Mark Twain

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#35

Post by DanBC »

laszlokorte wrote: post #19
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

You need to look at excess mortality. Currently we have a lot more people dying than normal. We know this because we're building temporary emergency mortuaries. Maybe these would have died within a year or two, but they're not, they're dying right now.

When someone has a heart attack and dies how do we know they had covid-19? We're mostly not testing people. We don't test the dead people. So we know or suspect they have covid-19 before they die. This is not a bunch of asymptomatic people dropping dead from expected causes then being labelled as covid-19 deaths, it's a bunch of people with severe symptoms who are dying and having multiple causes listed on the certificate, one of which will be covid-19.

Here's a useful thread that looks at the "they would have died anyway" comments: https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1246866119597621248

> now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19.

We know that covid-19 causes myocarditis, and that this is a significant cause of death for lots of covid-19 patients.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#36

Post by dangjerking »

artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

Dang are you jerking off or would you remove this violent comment?

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#37

Post by fzeroracer »

pfdietz wrote: post #31
laszlokorte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

The sheer mass of dead bodies will be refuting it soon, if it hasn't already. Unless the deniers want to posit a massive increase in non-Covid deaths that mimics a pandemic.

That's already been solved by the conspiracy theorists. They'll move to say that it was the result of 5G.

Nothing you can do can convince them that the coronavirus is real. They fundamentally deny that it exists even as it knocks on their door.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#38

Post by throwaway_jobs »

artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

> I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore.

Consider smoking kills 1,300 per day (480,000 per year) in the US. That isn’t a contagious virus it’s a product you literally have to purchase and use for decades and people still do it. Think about before it was common knowledge that smoking killed and how it was ingrained in culture and how it took decades to remove smoking from air planes, school, restaurants, even hospitals. Even now with knowledge of the risk/dangers and social changes 1,300 die everyday.

I’m not trying to make it a whataboutism, but to highlight the difficulty in getting people to change their behavior even if it means death. For example, this virus seems to kill mostly people with chronic diseases (hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, obesity) which are all dietary diseases and responsible for about 1M deaths per year in the US, this is common knowledge and the fact this virus is most deadly to that group...yet how many people will actually take steps to change and improve their diet and lifestyle?

To your point/question I’m not sure how you change people’s behavior...I mean we could right now eradicate all new cases of type 2 diabetes moving forward by getting people to eat a certain way, but people would rather argue about that than actually curb their behavior

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#39

Post by panpanna »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #27
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

Quoted post unavailable.

This belongs on r/conspiracy not HN.

Also, I am surprised about the hatred Bill Gates is receiving (despite spending billions of his own money on fighting Corona and other diseases). Could someone please explain why?

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#40

Post by mc32 »

laszlokorte wrote: post #19
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

It’d be helpful if they broke the stats down to

Covid deaths in healthy people and

Covid-related with comorbidity deaths.

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