Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Faceshield

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 663 posts

Re: Apple Faceshield

#571

Post by ALittleLight »

brodie wrote: post #565
ALittleLight wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was imagining more of a face shield with a filtered blower at the top blowing air onto the shield. I imagine this would reduce the amount of air coming around the edges of the shield and hopefully increase the effectiveness of the shield. The PAPR definitely looks interesting, and surely more effective, but it has the drawback of probably being less comfortable. I find masks uncomfortable. My face or nose itches. M…

If you’re looking at shields with fans you should just wear a mask. Take some anti-itch medication or ointment beforehand. Based on what medical professionals are saying, regular shields aren’t going to protect you from normal aerosols. Social distancing is probably better for people coughing near you. And buying shields is only going to increase mortality for hospital workers. Also, mild discomfort is a small price…

I don't think any of those things are true.

Shields have fairly promising results without fans. I cited some research to that effect above. The problem with the shield is that air flows around it, and that might be mitigated by fans blowing filtered air.

Social distancing is, axiomatically, not better for people coughing near me. If someone is coughing near me then social distancing has already failed. If I need to go to a grocery store, why shouldn't I consider wearing a shield?

Shields are made out of a sheet of plastic, which is not in short supply. If I needed to buy any it would not "increase the mortality for hospital workers".

Regarding mild discomfort being a small price to pay, you've misunderstood. The choice is not between mild discomfort and infecting people, but between mild discomfort and comfort. Obviously the latter is preferable, hence my curiosity about the shield and fans.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#572

Post by lm2s »

gambler wrote: post #256
leipert wrote: post #195

The Czech 3D Printer company Prusa has been on it for a while: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/ and they have been open-sourcing the design. You can print it on a 3D printer. Based on that design (and others) makers in Germany have started organizing, so that people can either request shields or supply shields. Organized on Slack and into local distribution hubs. We hace started sharing supplies and even got discount…

What is the point of 3d printing something that clearly needs to be mass-produced in great quantities? Maybe it "feels good", but it's just too slow. I'm honestly not sure why people don't just use plastic food wrap as a cheap improvised alternative for face shields. It's lightweight, readily available, disposable, fits over any attire and does not restrict visibility.

It just has a faster start. Here in Portugal people have been printing 3D face shield for 2 weeks (or more probably) and delivering them to those who need it.

In the meantime injection mold factories started creating the mold, fine tuning it and are now producing in large quantities.

But you see, for 2 weeks (or more) the big factories had 0 face shields coming out, which matters a lot.

People on the field don't need great and efficient solutions 2 weeks down the line, they need good enough solutions NOW.

I don't understand how the comment can have upvotes. "feels good"? Really? People with 3D printers are making a difference and actually helping those in the field. From health staff, to law enforcement to other areas. Shame on you.

And no I don't have a 3D printer. Unfortunately.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#573

Post by celticninja »

brodie wrote: post #556
ricardobeat wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be useful for the shop clerk though, who is seeing a hundred people in a row.

Plenty of essential public areas are building plastic drapes. That’s effectively the same thing but likely cheaper and not depriving medical professionals of anything.

here in the UK they are introducing plastic shields between checkout operators and customers. largely the same and saves staff from needing to wear PPE

Re: Apple Faceshield

#574

Post by raverbashing »

futhey wrote: post #518
bloopernova wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! I had missed this news, so a link to a support article with no explanation was a little mystifying.

They're donating a million face shields by the end of the week to hospitals and medical facilities with the greatest need, and 20m by the end of the month, designed by Apple and sourced via their existing supply chain.

A writeup of how that was accomplished (because it seems it was a new design, or maybe an adapted design) would be very interesting.

Did they adapt an existing cutting tool? New tool? What were those factories making before the pandemic?

Re: Apple Faceshield

#575

Post by DanBC »

ALittleLight wrote: post #571
brodie wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re looking at shields with fans you should just wear a mask. Take some anti-itch medication or ointment beforehand. Based on what medical professionals are saying, regular shields aren’t going to protect you from normal aerosols. Social distancing is probably better for people coughing near you. And buying shields is only going to increase mortality for hospital workers. Also, mild discomfort is a small price…

I don't think any of those things are true. Shields have fairly promising results without fans. I cited some research to that effect above. The problem with the shield is that air flows around it, and that might be mitigated by fans blowing filtered air. Social distancing is, axiomatically, not better for people coughing near me. If someone is coughing near me then social distancing has already failed. If I need to g…

PPE worn by members of the public going about their everyday life is a premature optimisation, and it risks causing harm.

People wear PPE to protect them from specific things.

The specific thing you are protecting yourself from with Covid-19 is droplets that have been coughed from infected people into the air, and the droplets that then fall onto other surfaces.

So far we think these droplets are fairly large. There's a lot of talk in this thread about aerosolised, and that's tricky because there's no real definition of what that means. It's unlikely the drops caused by normal covid-19 coughing meet that definition though. So, these large drops don't travel far (maybe three metres), and they don't hang in the air for long before falling.

The most important thing you can do to protect yourself is stay at home. If you must travel outside you need to carefully and frequently wash your hands and maintain 2 metres distance from other people. Do not touch your face.

If you're doing that you'll get at best marginal protection from wearing PPE. But you only get that protection if you're wearing PPE correctly, and more importantly if you're taking it off correctly.

If you're not wearing PPE correctly you lose those marginal benefits. If you take it off incorrectly you not only lose the benefits but you increase your risk.

If PPE is causing you to take risky action, such as leaving your home when you'd otherwise stay in, then again you're increasing your risk.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#576

Post by mch82 »

raverbashing wrote: post #574
futhey wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're donating a million face shields by the end of the week to hospitals and medical facilities with the greatest need, and 20m by the end of the month, designed by Apple and sourced via their existing supply chain.

A writeup of how that was accomplished (because it seems it was a new design, or maybe an adapted design) would be very interesting. Did they adapt an existing cutting tool? New tool? What were those factories making before the pandemic?

Going only off of the video I saw of Tim Cook with the shield...

The entire shield is a clear plastic film. It’s held against the forehead using a fabric strap. The shield appears to be either die cut or laser cut, which explains the production speed. A lot of the face shields shown online are 3D printed with hard plastic components, which is a very slow process.

The material looks a lot like the clear plastic film that wraps an iPhone or even an iPad charger. The shield folds together in the same origami-like way. Based on comments about the supply chain being involved, it seems like they leveraged the existing manufacturing process for Apple product packaging and thickened the plastic.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#577

Post by harimau777 »

neuronic wrote: post #567
ehsankia wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, I've been seeing a lot of calls for 3D printing similar looking Face shields , which are very different from face masks. What is the use for this? Are they actually useful to health care professionals? Face mask + goggles fully covers the 3 places the virus can enter (mouth, nose and eyes), but these shields seem like they would be more useful for people who have the virus than those who don't.

COVID-19 is very likely only marginally spread by aerosols (I take this from Robert Koch Institute, Germany information [1]), approximately 10% by contact spread and mainly by direct transmission of droplets. Faceshield therefore protects from the main transmission vector. It's not impossible to get infected otherwise, simply much less likely. Your main enemy are getting coughed/sneezed/talked at in close proximity.…

So this is likely a dumb idea, but if things got truly desperate I wonder if a snorkel mask would be a decent improvised protection. Your eyes and nose would be completely covered and your mouth is getting air from a direction/location that is unlikely to be in the "line of fire" from someone coughing or sneezing.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#578

Post by dmurray »

mch82 wrote: post #576
raverbashing wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A writeup of how that was accomplished (because it seems it was a new design, or maybe an adapted design) would be very interesting. Did they adapt an existing cutting tool? New tool? What were those factories making before the pandemic?

Going only off of the video I saw of Tim Cook with the shield... The entire shield is a clear plastic film. It’s held against the forehead using a fabric strap. The shield appears to be either die cut or laser cut, which explains the production speed. A lot of the face shields shown online are 3D printed with hard plastic components, which is a very slow process. The material looks a lot like the clear plastic film t…

3D printing seems crazy for a single sheet of bendy plastic that needs to be mass produced. Cutting them out by hand with a knife or a scissors would be better than 3d printing, never mind laser or die cutting.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#579

Post by dmurray »

harimau777 wrote: post #577
neuronic wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID-19 is very likely only marginally spread by aerosols (I take this from Robert Koch Institute, Germany information [1]), approximately 10% by contact spread and mainly by direct transmission of droplets. Faceshield therefore protects from the main transmission vector. It's not impossible to get infected otherwise, simply much less likely. Your main enemy are getting coughed/sneezed/talked at in close proximity.…

So this is likely a dumb idea, but if things got truly desperate I wonder if a snorkel mask would be a decent improvised protection. Your eyes and nose would be completely covered and your mouth is getting air from a direction/location that is unlikely to be in the "line of fire" from someone coughing or sneezing.

Definitely. A snorkel/scuba mask is going to be better protection than most masks, though relatively expensive to produce and clean and can't be treated as disposable.
Post reply on HN