Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Faceshield

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

541–550 of 663 posts

Re: Apple Faceshield

#541

Post by brodie »

Talanes wrote: post #426
samatman wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general public includes about a hundred thousand people whose job puts them in touch with everyone: mostly checkout clerks. They are at great risk for infection and for being vectors of infection, and are performing an essential service. These face masks are a great piece of technology for them: effective, reusable, and comfortable enough to wear for a full shift.

It's very simple to just put up a full shield between the clerk and the customers, you don't need to strap the shield to people's faces when there's a static point of contact.

I had to go to the hospital today for a follow up X-ray after a month long life threatening illness. Every single desk and checkpoint inside either had the glass windows slightly cracked open but essentially closed, or they were draped in plastic covers. My pharmacy also did the same thing.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#542

Post by brodie »

sailfast wrote: post #285
docbrown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. This burst of PPE being produced in mass quantities are and were never meant to go in the hands of the general public (i.e., non healthcare workers), though. The general public does not need to be walking around with a full face shield, that’ll be a waste of materials, time and money, unfortunately.

At some point, I want to leave my house. Like, maybe in June? A face shield sounds like a prudent way to reduce one’s risk while also being able to interact with others. Why not let citizens buy them after shortages end?

They don’t reduce risk of infection in day to day situations. They’re specialized medical tools used in appropriate situations.

Also, please put on a mask and leave your house. You aren’t on permanent curfew. Do some essential activities each day.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#543

Post by brodie »

cameldrv wrote: post #169
docbrown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. This burst of PPE being produced in mass quantities are and were never meant to go in the hands of the general public (i.e., non healthcare workers), though. The general public does not need to be walking around with a full face shield, that’ll be a waste of materials, time and money, unfortunately.

Over 1000 people in America are dying every day of this disease. This thing costs probably $2 and likely provides significant protection. About 100 people in America die per day from motor vehicle accidents. Next I suppose you're going to tell me that the extra $50 it costs to install a seatbelt in my car is a waste of materials, time, and money too, right?

They don’t provide the general public any significant protection. It’s basically the same as not wearing one, except you’re condemning health professionals to increased risk, exposure, and possible death.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#544

Post by brodie »

cameldrv wrote: post #216
simonh wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Face shields are to protect against body fluid splatter during invasive bodily procedures and while closely treating patients with explosive coughing fits. Even doctors in hospitals treating Covid-19 patients don't wear them outside those types of circumstances. There is no need for the general public to wear them. It's not like fitting your car with a seat belt, it's like fitting it with an ejector seat.

So your argument is that the risk to the average American is low from COVID? Why do we have 300,000 cases then? Why are 1000 people dying a day? That's already 0.1% of the population, and most of them in the past week!

You’re not listening to what he said. He argued no such thing. You however seem content to deprive doctors and nurses of important tools and compromise their safety and patient safety so you can selfishly take something that provides zero protection to you.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#545

Post by brodie »

Beltiras wrote: post #264
cameldrv wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is that the risk to the average American is low from COVID? Why do we have 300,000 cases then? Why are 1000 people dying a day? That's already 0.1% of the population, and most of them in the past week!

Lack of testing and a laggard&lackluster response by authorities. USA will be one of the hardest hit countries in the world. There's still no stay-at-home order. Trump wants to reduce what little is being done after Easter. That's going to make the situation considerably worse.

Plenty of states have stay at home orders. Mine does. It isn’t clear to me the federal government has the authority to issue that kind of order, short of martial law. The US government isn’t identical to many other countries. States are like quasi-countries, legally, authority-wise, and culturally.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#546

Post by brodie »

cameldrv wrote: post #267
Beltiras wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of testing and a laggard&lackluster response by authorities. USA will be one of the hardest hit countries in the world. There's still no stay-at-home order. Trump wants to reduce what little is being done after Easter. That's going to make the situation considerably worse.

All true, but even with stay at home orders, not everyone stays home. Some people are essential workers and have to go to work. Other people go out for exercise, grocery shopping, etc. If those people have protective equipment available it is truly senseless to not wear it given the extreme danger.

Face shields aren’t protective wear in public. Taking them away from doctors and nurses however does increase mortality for them and patients in general.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#547

Post by brodie »

cameldrv wrote: post #492
simonh wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appropriate equipment yes, absolutely. But even doctors and nurses do not wear face shields routinely around hospitals. They are worn when performing particular procedures and circumstances that don’t apply to most situations even in hospitals.

SARS-CoV-2 is not a routine disease. HCWs are dropping like flies. They obviously not being adequately protected.

Because they’re dying doesn’t mean shields will help. I think the medically inclined people in this discussion are making reasoned arguments. You however are just appealing to hysteria.

I can imagine so many other more likely reasons for those deaths than face shield usage.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#548

Post by brodie »

cameldrv wrote: post #196
mike_d wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These face shields are intended as an alternative to eye protection that is in short supply. They do nothing for respiratory protection. Infection via the eyes is primarily a concern for people interacting closely with contagious patients (i.e. healthcare workers). To answer your seemingly underlying question: no, if Apple gave you a face shield it doesn't mean you get to go outside.

If no one is going outside, how are there any new cases? Lots of people are "essential workers", they go to the grocery store, the pharmacy, etc. Yes, HCW exposure is much greater than the average person, but your argument is essentially: Since you aren't driving in a Formula 1 race where the risk of crashing is higher, there's no need to wear a seatbelt. When we're seeing hundreds of deaths per year from COVID, I'll…

Face shields aren’t seatbelts. Someone put it well when they said they’re ejector seats. I assume you aren’t flying jets or intubating patients.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#549

Post by 7leafer »

Cheapo crap. Couldn't they add an augmented reality HUD projector so that "STAY FUCKING HOME" never leaves host's field of view? Also questionable is the fact of this concoction being removable. Protection should be permanent, not temporary! Who knows what hazards come next after corona?

Re: Apple Faceshield

#550

Post by brodie »

cameldrv wrote: post #206
alexbanks wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more that these would be a pretty involved overstep for regular people to be walking around in. Social distancing + hand washing + a homemade cloth mask is sufficient for regular people. For the same reasons that regular people don't need/shouldn't be wearing N95 masks everywhere, nor should these.

If the argument is that civilians shouldn't wear N95 masks outside, but rather donate them to people who need them even more, fine. However, if the argument is that you shouldn't wear a $1 mask, which provides substantial protection against COVID, because it's not necessary, I would refer you again to the 1000 people that died yesterday that didn't wear an N95 mask. The amount of mental gymnastics you have to do to h…

There’s no mental gymnastics happening. You’re just ignoring what medical workers are saying and assuming your intuition is infallible. It’s easy to understand why it’s dangerous to deprive those workers of shields to benefit to yourself. And manufacturing cost is not the same as availability. We don’t have instantaneous infinite supplies of these.
Post reply on HN