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Apple Faceshield

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Re: Apple Faceshield

#491

Post by geomark »

woofie11 wrote: post #20
gowld wrote: post #6

Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield... “Our first shipment was delivered to Kaiser hospital facilities in the Santa Clara Valley this past week, and the feedback from doctors was very positive,” Cook says. “These pack flat, one hundred per box. Each shield is assembled in less than two minutes and is fully adjustable. We’re sourcing materials and manufacturing in the US and China.” A…

I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. Ideally, they'd be cheap enough for municipalities to buy and distribute.

Make your own. Transparency sheet with corners cut rounded, foam strip cut from a sponge stuck along one edge of the sheet with double sided tape, elastic strap stapled to two corners. Easy and effective. We have been making and donating them to hopsitals and first responders in our area (not in the US) who are happy to get them.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#492

Post by cameldrv »

simonh wrote: post #482
cameldrv wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but even with stay at home orders, not everyone stays home. Some people are essential workers and have to go to work. Other people go out for exercise, grocery shopping, etc. If those people have protective equipment available it is truly senseless to not wear it given the extreme danger.

Appropriate equipment yes, absolutely. But even doctors and nurses do not wear face shields routinely around hospitals. They are worn when performing particular procedures and circumstances that don’t apply to most situations even in hospitals.

SARS-CoV-2 is not a routine disease. HCWs are dropping like flies. They obviously not being adequately protected.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#493

Post by dehrmann »

gowld wrote: post #6

Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield... “Our first shipment was delivered to Kaiser hospital facilities in the Santa Clara Valley this past week, and the feedback from doctors was very positive,” Cook says. “These pack flat, one hundred per box. Each shield is assembled in less than two minutes and is fully adjustable. We’re sourcing materials and manufacturing in the US and China.” A…

For people not aware (I doubt that it's many in this audience), Santa Clara Valley is better(?) known as Silicon Valley. It's where Apple's based, and it's unpleasantly warm spot in the US for SARS-CoV-2 infections.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#494

Post by titzer »

titzer wrote: post #428
mumblemumble wrote: post #136

Pet peeve, that may not just be me idly nitpicking, since this is presumably going to be used in a health care or healthcare-adjacent context where clear communication matters: Sterilization and disinfection are NOT the same thing. The products they suggest using for "sterilization" are disinfecting agents. They will kill most, but not all, microbes. Sterilization implies that you've eliminated everything, and requir…

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Ok downvoters, it's from Aliens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q

Re: Apple Faceshield

#495

Post by jnbiche »

rumanator wrote: post #425
roenxi wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that is pretty much what I'm imagining. If someone tried to smoke behind a facemask it seems pretty likely that most of the smoke will be caught behind the mask then drift out behind them like a comet trail, or move up/down. Only small wisps would end up traveling forward to where I'd be standing for conversation. The doses of virus would be diluted very rapidly which is helpful. Ideal scenario would be most of…

> it seems pretty likely that most of the smoke will be caught If your plan is to only block most of the virus then perhaps you should rethink it. It's like stating that a hole in the hull is not a problem because the rest of the ship keeps most of the water out.

This is potentially misleading. Viral load is a significant factor in the seriousness of most infectious diseases. This is why you'll likely be ok if you pass a coughing TB patient in the street and inhale a few bacteria, but are much more prone to contract TB if you spend an entire day cooped up in a small room with the same coughing, infected individual.

This is thought to be why an unexpectedly high proportion of young, healthy doctors and nurses are getting seriously ill from Covid-19. Statically, you'd expect almost all of them to get mild disease.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#496

Post by barry-cotter »

simonh wrote: post #485
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expected this to be for apple factory workers, surprised to see its being sold to other companies.

These are only used by doctors and nurses when treating patients with open airways at very close range to protect from direct splatters with body fluids. Eg when intubating a patient that’s having explosive coughing fits. They are also part of a complete protective system including a mask, elasticated hair cover, full body wrap aprons and long arm gloves. There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear…

> There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear because if you are in a situation where you need the shield, you also need the rest as well.

This is the same class of bullshit the WHO, CDC and FDA were pushing about face masks less than a week ago. There is no way this is worse than nothing. If a face shield used with no other PPE reduces the viral load the average healthcare worker is exposed to by 1% fewer people will be infected and those who do will be more likely to recover as their immune system has more time to ramp up defenses.

This will reduce R0. There is no plausible mechanism of action for a face shield to work as PPE together with a respirator, or as part of a full suit of PPE, under which it provides no protection when used alone.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#497

Post by barry-cotter »

mbreese wrote: post #373
roenxi wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is facing me and a stream of airborne particles hits a plastic shield instead of streaming out to me, it seems pretty likely that I will be protected. I'm certainly open to the idea that fluid mechanics are complicated and somehow air currents are going to do unhelpful things, but until I find someone with a paper on the topic I'd much rather be talking to someone wearing a face shield than not. Plus obvio…

> it seems pretty likely that I will be protected And you'd be wrong. Sure, a face shield will protect you from liquid streaming out at you (partially). However, it isn't a liquid that you need to protect yourself from in this instance... it is aerosolized particles. And those travel in the air. So when you breathe in, that air can and will move around the face shield. The sibling comment about smoke moving is exactl…

> this is how N95 masks are actually fit. (Well, not using smoke, but similar test). If you can smell the chemical used in the test, the fit is wrong.

And if the smell is less strong than it would be if you weren’t wearing the mask the viral load you’ve been exposed to is smaller. You are less likely to be infected and if you are infected your immune system has more time to ramp up so you’re more likely to fight it off.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#498

Post by paulie_a »

woofie11 wrote: post #20
gowld wrote: post #6

Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield... “Our first shipment was delivered to Kaiser hospital facilities in the Santa Clara Valley this past week, and the feedback from doctors was very positive,” Cook says. “These pack flat, one hundred per box. Each shield is assembled in less than two minutes and is fully adjustable. We’re sourcing materials and manufacturing in the US and China.” A…

I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. Ideally, they'd be cheap enough for municipalities to buy and distribute.

That would counter the stay at home initiatives. People would think it's safe again.

If they want to make them for sale they should, 1k a mask for the general public.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#499

Post by rswail »

Surgical/cotton masks protect other people from your sneezing and breathing out aerosolized virus.

N95 masks do the same, but also protect you from 95% of particles that meet the following: "The particle size distribution will be a count median diameter of 0.185±0.020 micrometer and a geometric standard deviation not exceeding 1.6. Each respirator filter unit will be challenged with an aerosol concentration of 100 ± 10 mg/m3"

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/stps/pdfs/TEB-APR-STP-0001-5...

They are also tested for air flow rates to meet standard for inflow and outflow.

They don't protect you against the virus, they protect you against the aerosols that may be carrying the virus.

Face shields are for protecting against liquids and solids, not particles.

They might be useful for people like checkout clerks, but a fixed screen would do the same.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#500

Post by jnbiche »

uxp wrote: post #153
epicureanideal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that they probably would cost $1 to $5, and take almost no space to store, it wouldn't be a terrible thing for people to have a few if they want them. How many people have a $20 multi-tool that stays in a drawer somewhere? Or some bags of rice "just in case" that end up getting thrown in the trash after being forgotten about in the cabinet for 5 years? It may not be a terrible thing if some percentage of people…

It's not about the money. PPE like face shields are specifically used during procedures that involve significant bodily fluid, like intubation, which is the process of pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus. Going to to the grocery store does not require a shield. Secondly disposable medical equipment, when used properly within a healthcare environment, is extremely wasteful. For most consumable items u…

> pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus

No, that's another procedure. Intubating respiratory patients involves targeting the trachea and avoiding the esophagus. An esophageal intubation can be Very Bad.

That said, as an early advocate for face masks for the general public, I'm in 100% agreement that face shields are pointless for the general public. We don't need them.

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