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Apple Faceshield

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Re: Apple Faceshield

#451

Post by pertymcpert »

roenxi wrote: post #382
mbreese wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems pretty likely that I will be protected And you'd be wrong. Sure, a face shield will protect you from liquid streaming out at you (partially). However, it isn't a liquid that you need to protect yourself from in this instance... it is aerosolized particles. And those travel in the air. So when you breathe in, that air can and will move around the face shield. The sibling comment about smoke moving is exactl…

You say that with great confidence and a lack of sources; and I'm guessing we are equally ignorant on the actual physics of how small droplets move. The details aren't clear on how the virus is spreading. The virus might have multiple modes of transmission. Closing 2 of them reliably a great deal. There are important things to do with "catching COVID" that aren't binary; starting doses likely matter as well. I'd rath…

This is just common sense. Aerosolized particles are not impeded by a shield. A shield is intended to obstruct ballistic projectiles. If those projectiles are aerosolized and are in the air that you breathe, then the shield will offer no protection at all. Even an N95 mask still can let in up to 5% of these particles. What efficacy is a piece of plastic in front of your face going to do against that?

Re: Apple Faceshield

#452

Post by amalcon »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #395
docbrown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. This burst of PPE being produced in mass quantities are and were never meant to go in the hands of the general public (i.e., non healthcare workers), though. The general public does not need to be walking around with a full face shield, that’ll be a waste of materials, time and money, unfortunately.

Several US state governments are strongly asking people to wear masks now. My local government asked so strongly they had to clarify that no, they could not prosecute you for not wearing one. And while they generally demonstrate masks that cover the nose and mouth, the earlier guidance was to avoid touching the eyes, as that was believed to be a major vector for droplet absorption. So... how do you reconcile your sta…

That strong suggestion is so that a person with the virus will be wearing the mask, and therefore less likely to infect other people. That type of mask is more or less useless for protecting its wearer; its purpose is to protect everyone else.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#453

Post by TaylorAlexander »

ogre_codes wrote: post #311
blhack wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it turns out you actually can 3D print some of these in mass quantities. Some of the printers we are working with right now are producing on the order of 10s of thousands of parts per day. And now, there are tool shops in the US right now cutting injection molds to make those parts in the hundreds of thousands of parts per day.

The kind of 3d printing Prusa does (and provided plans for) is a tabletop/ amateur printer, not something which can scale.

Actually Prusa has a print farm with hundreds of printers or more normally used to print parts for their printers. But they possess significant manufacturing capability in their in house print farm, plus laser cutters for face shields and QA/shipping supplies. I don’t see why they wouldn’t use their substantial capacity to support COVID relief.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#454

Post by baddox »

awinder wrote: post #58

I can hear Jony Ive describing it as "fashioned from a single continuous pane of clear polymer" in my ears right now...

If they were branded with an Apple logo they would be valuable collector’s items!

Re: Apple Faceshield

#455

Post by huehehue »

Avamander wrote: post #437
huehehue wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned about it through The Anarchist Cookbook. They don't teach you in high school not to transport gasoline in a styrofoam container.

They don't teach you how organic solvents often dissolve polar materials such as various polymers? I'm really becoming befuddled here, what do they teach then?

Well, my grade school science teacher was also my gym teacher (he may have held a third position). So we mostly just sang periodic table rhymes and made baking soda volcanos.

Despite what you may have heard, the average middle-American education doesn't prepare you for the hard science of the real world.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#456

Post by Thorrez »

lonelappde wrote: post #379
klipt wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says something about our society, though, that doctors at Stanford can use a mask per chat "just in case", while just across the bay at Oakland Kaiser nurses are working with multiple confirmed coronavirus patients on a single mask...

It's says that some people can't resist spreading rumors and jumping to conclusions. You have no idea how long standard docs are stretching masks.

zbrozek says his/her friend works at Stanford and says this. Is there a reason to doubt this?

Re: Apple Faceshield

#457

Post by Avamander »

huehehue wrote: post #455
Avamander wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't teach you how organic solvents often dissolve polar materials such as various polymers? I'm really becoming befuddled here, what do they teach then?

Well, my grade school science teacher was also my gym teacher (he may have held a third position). So we mostly just sang periodic table rhymes and made baking soda volcanos. Despite what you may have heard, the average middle-American education doesn't prepare you for the hard science of the real world.

Illuminating, I didn't know it was that inconsistent. I have a newfound appreciation of my own teachers now.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#458

Post by Dylan16807 »

BalinKing wrote: post #419
mbreese wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems pretty likely that I will be protected And you'd be wrong. Sure, a face shield will protect you from liquid streaming out at you (partially). However, it isn't a liquid that you need to protect yourself from in this instance... it is aerosolized particles. And those travel in the air. So when you breathe in, that air can and will move around the face shield. The sibling comment about smoke moving is exactl…

Isn't the recommendations by many countries to wear even cloth masks (e.g. the recent reversal by the CDC) _because_ there's a good chance COVID-19 can spread via large (i.e. non-aerosolized) respiratory droplets? (Not that it doesn't also spread in other ways, but removing even one vector would be better in this case than not doing so.)

A cloth mask can capture some sizes of droplet, but a flat wall that the all the air goes around is not really going to do anything.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#459

Post by [deleted] »

leipert wrote: post #195

The Czech 3D Printer company Prusa has been on it for a while: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/ and they have been open-sourcing the design. You can print it on a 3D printer. Based on that design (and others) makers in Germany have started organizing, so that people can either request shields or supply shields. Organized on Slack and into local distribution hubs. We hace started sharing supplies and even got discount…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Faceshield

#460

Post by ShakataGaNai »

gambler wrote: post #256
leipert wrote: post #195

The Czech 3D Printer company Prusa has been on it for a while: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/ and they have been open-sourcing the design. You can print it on a 3D printer. Based on that design (and others) makers in Germany have started organizing, so that people can either request shields or supply shields. Organized on Slack and into local distribution hubs. We hace started sharing supplies and even got discount…

What is the point of 3d printing something that clearly needs to be mass-produced in great quantities? Maybe it "feels good", but it's just too slow. I'm honestly not sure why people don't just use plastic food wrap as a cheap improvised alternative for face shields. It's lightweight, readily available, disposable, fits over any attire and does not restrict visibility.

Dustin from Smarter Every Day ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbEj7M3aZIg ) actually has a really solid answer to this.

The TLDR is: 3D printing can start instantly. Someone with CAD skills can have a design made, 3D printed and out for evaluation in hours. In takes days (or weeks) to get a good injection mold tooled and up and running. Then once the injection molding is going, 3d printing can switch to working on something else.

This is all about fast. fast. fast.

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