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Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

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Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#191

Post by nradov »

azemetre wrote: post #172
graeme wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 70% of people get it, you have a baseline risk of 30% of getting it. My assumption is that a sizeable fraction of people either: * Already got it * Don’t take hand washing seriously or do it wrong * Are bad at avoiding touching their face * Unnecessarily touch surfaces when out (i.e. door with hand, rather than sleeve/bag, whatever) * Don’t practice distancing well * Are in a job where they must interact with the…

I do nearly everything except distance well if I am forced back to work and have to take public transportation. I live in Boston and this is my fear. I avoid people now but I doubt much people can keep this sustained for 6-months.

Obviously current measures aren't sustainable for 6 months, or even 3 months.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#192

Post by jacquesm »

handsomechad wrote: post #189
koheripbal wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid-19 is a type of virus that does not mutate much at all. It has error correction in replication. Across all the variants found globally so far, there have only been changes to 20 base pairs - most of which (possibly all) do absolutely nothing. Your immunity will likely make any re-infection much much lighter - even many years from now. Interestingly, Coronaviruses generally, can still re-infect you even after yo…

can you, or someone who understands this, explain to the layperson what this means. the last sentence in particular, what does reinfection have to do with error correction (what is error correction (assuming it has to do with the genome)?) why is that an advantage over influenza?

Because without error correction the mutation rate goes way up which might get you to squeak by an already alerted immune system and achieve reinfection. That's why you get new strains of the flu all the time. Error correction means that the genome will be very close to the one observed the previous time, so if you want to re-infect you need the immunity to last relatively short or be less than perfect. That secondary (or even later) infection would normally go unnoticed though.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#193

Post by xtracto »

jacquesm wrote: post #86

So, I've been battling this bug for the last three weeks or so, probably caught it on the way back from my last job in Finland. I expected an empty plane instead it was packed like it was the last train out of San Fernando and everybody was scared there never would be another one. After a week or so symptoms started in spite of having self-isolated already after the flight, so that's why I figure that is where I caug…

Yes yes yes!! I have had this thing for 5 weeks now. And one thing that I saw last week is that my heart rate was between 100 and 120 for some time even when laying down (I got an oximeter early on). Right now I want to think I feel better, but it has been so many ups and downs with this virus, that I don't know what to think.

As you very well say, this is no playing matter. I am sure my recovery will be long. If a normal Pneumonia takes so much time (a friend of mine had it last year and 1 year later he is still not 100% back), this virus will definitely take even more patience for the physiotherapeutic stage.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#194

Post by jacquesm »

xtracto wrote: post #193
jacquesm wrote: post #86

So, I've been battling this bug for the last three weeks or so, probably caught it on the way back from my last job in Finland. I expected an empty plane instead it was packed like it was the last train out of San Fernando and everybody was scared there never would be another one. After a week or so symptoms started in spite of having self-isolated already after the flight, so that's why I figure that is where I caug…

Yes yes yes!! I have had this thing for 5 weeks now. And one thing that I saw last week is that my heart rate was between 100 and 120 for some time even when laying down (I got an oximeter early on). Right now I want to think I feel better, but it has been so many ups and downs with this virus, that I don't know what to think. As you very well say, this is no playing matter. I am sure my recovery will be long. If a n…

You be very careful please, if it has been going for that long and you are still not getting better then you may have a secondary infection going (further down, in your lungs) and you may not be getting enough O2. Please make sure you sleep front down so that your lungs can work better (the bulk of the active surface of your lungs is on your back), fluid will drain to the bottom and you may be able to get some more needed oxygen. Also, if possible, get tested, that way at least you are confirmed which might speed things up a bit by the time you need it. Be sure to tell your doctor about it (GP, assuming you have one) and to call EMS when you feel you are losing it. Calling EMS too late is in many cases a contributing cause for really bad cases or fatalities, there is no 'toughing this out' if your body can't cope.

Best of luck!

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#195

Post by branko_d »

jakogut wrote: post #101
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a hypothesis [0] that the virus attacks red blood cells and impacts their capacity to transport O2, and that the lung damage is actually caused by that, and not directly by the virus. Elevated heart rate makes a lot of sense. [0] see thread and linked paper: https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1244717172871409666

> There is a theory [0] (unproven!) Would it be more appropriate then to call it a hypothesis?

No, "theory" is simply a provable "hypothesis". Doesn't have to be proven, just provable.

The thing is, a theory can never be completely proven. We can never completely discount the possibility of making a new observation or experiment that disproves the theory (hence "falsifiability").

That's why, for example, the "germ theory" is a correct term, even though its probability of being correct is so close to 100% that we could just call it the "truth".

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#196

Post by henearkr »

stordoff wrote: post #167
henearkr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, but look, it is not the correct behavior of the body, right? So obviously something is wrong, and I find it hard to believe that the problem is from the mind if the patient is not himself stating it. In most cases, if he has an anxiety problem, he would straightly start by talking about it, like "I have been in wrong terms with my neighbors for years, and now just thinking they are next door is hurting my che…

> if he has an anxiety problem, he would straightly start by talking about it In my experience, with an OCD component with general anxiety, it can twist your thoughts so much that it's difficult to unpick what the root problem is, other than a general and overwhelming feeling of "Something's wrong". I've often likened it to having two threads running - one is your normal, rational thoughts, and the other is irrationa…

You're right to point me out that the state can actually origin in pure, causeless, anxiety. Thanks, I was blinded by the reasoning I wanted to defend.

However I think that there could be cases where it would come from, e.g. thyroid instability. Usually nobody is monitored 24/7 on its thyroid hormone levels, etc. Could be also adrenal glands. Maybe when they are weak, or subject to autoimmune problems, their secretions can be irregular, or their reactions to stimuli can be too weak, too strong, quick or slow.

Then the subject would not be anymore resilient to normal stress. That would explain why normal stress => pathological effects on some people.

Then again the organ-level defects could be themselves a consequence of elevated stress during long periods, so one could raise the question about which is first of the egg or chicken...

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#197

Post by koheripbal »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #175
koheripbal wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's circular logic. If patient A dies of heart failure during a covid-19 infection, you should not be concluding that the patient likely had a heart issue prior to the covid-19 infection. Sure, it might be the case, but you cannot draw any conclusion here unless you compare it to other pneumonia cases.

Your second statement undermines your first.

No, I don't think they do. Can you be more specific?
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