Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money • Hacker News Board

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#71

Post by NamTaf » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

neumann wrote: post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

It's also worth highlighting that the universities here have become so reliant on that money that they were paying students up to AUD$7500 in some cases [1] to not drop out of the academic semester, by either remote study or flying and staying in a third country for the 14 days to obey the technicalities of the travel ban from China. Had they dropped out before the census date, those students would've been eligible for refunds, and the universities would've been bled of funding they critically rely on.

That the whole system has become so dependent on foreign funding that this sort of incentive became a financially prudent decision for the unis is terrifying from the point of view of independence [2] and ongoing security of the system.

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/26/australian-uni...

[2]: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/universities-rewrite...

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#72

Post by hazz99 » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:09 AM UTC

diebeforei485 wrote: post #66

Leary wrote: post #3

It's not like they are refunding the tuition for this semester. Hopefully things will get better in the fall and the universities can reopen.

Why should tuition be refunded anyway? People are still getting credits and can graduate. Housing and meal plans should be refunded for the unused portion of the semester, yes.

Education is now online and they cannot access any university resources. Why should they pay the same price for a quarter of the value?

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#73

Post by fastball » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:13 AM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #51

nvarsj wrote: post #47

This is a problem in the UK too. The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools. I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be o…

Given enough time it could go the other way - the schools' increased income from foreign students would subsidise more scholarships for local students. I'm under the impression they are nonprofit, so the money has to go somewhere?

It doesn't require any more time, it's happening already. UK universities charge non-Europeans more than double the tuition they charge Europeans. The foreign nationals are subsidizing the education of Brits, not the other way around.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#74

Post by mannykannot » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #68

wickerman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Dublin, where the housing crisis is supported by an overabundance of "student accommodation" and airbnb rentals, the housing crisis disappeared overnight because of this virus. A friend of mine said she found a small apartment for two in Dublin 5 for 800 euro a month. Unbelievable.

>the housing crisis disappeared overnight because of this virus Thats a bit disingenous and hyperbolic. It is true that more apartments are available (00's) due to Corona but the housing crisis is far from over.

It may be mistaken and exaggerated, but did you really intend to write that wickerman is being disingenuous?

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#75

Post by Traster » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

neumann wrote: post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

This reminds me of a New Statesmen article about UK universities[1], which point out university attendance has gone up 500% since 1990 and First class honours went from being awarded to 7% to being awarded to 29% of students. Either universities figured out a way of being 4x as effective teaching 5x as many students (with measurements for average intake attainment basically flat) - which would be a miracle. Or the marketisation of higher education has incentivised selling the long term reputation of the institution.

By changing the institutions incentives, we've managed to destroy the educational value of the institutions themselves - because we no longer incentivise it.

[1]:https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2019/08/grea...

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#76

Post by andrepd » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:26 AM UTC

lucozade wrote: post #50

nvarsj wrote: post #47

This is a problem in the UK too. The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools. I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be o…

> I have to subsidize education for the very rich or rich foreign nationals Not a penny of your tax goes to subsidising their education. The charitable status of private schools means that the money used for their education isn't taxed twice. I agree that private schooling tends to exacerbate divisions. The majority of state school provision in the UK is atrocious. I have more concern that very little is being done a…

>Not a penny of your tax goes to subsidising their education.

An entity not paying some amount of tax in practice means the rest of us will have to cover that amount with our own taxes. Same thing with corporate tax evasion etc.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#77

Post by Traster » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:28 AM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #51

nvarsj wrote: post #47

This is a problem in the UK too. The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools. I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be o…

Given enough time it could go the other way - the schools' increased income from foreign students would subsidise more scholarships for local students. I'm under the impression they are nonprofit, so the money has to go somewhere?

The money goes to the Bursar, the headmaster and various reputational pursuits. I know of a school that was asking alumni to donate to buy heart rate monitors for their gym, and a portable electronic score board - not because they didn't have an electronic score board already, but so that they could take it to away games.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#78

Post by nraynaud » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:29 AM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #52

nraynaud wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are a 1B people country, from their point of view, foreign education is a fringe anecdote, no country in the world would even be able to house a significant share of their students.

The elites are a far smaller cohort.

I'm pretty sure you don't really learn Chinese law, Chinese state accounting, and make connections in the CCP by studying in the US either.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#79

Post by spiritplumber » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:30 AM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #38

neumann wrote: post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

Australian here too, just graduated along with my partner (who was an international student). You're right about the long-term consequences for the university, but I would also add that universities actively undermine their international students at every turn (perhaps because there's little profit motive to help them succeed in their ludicrously expensive education). The thing that pisses me off the most is that the…

I had a similar experience in the US. My major was EE and my passion was aerospace. I quickly learned to hide my accent because nobody would talk to me as soon as it transpired I wasn't a citizen.

One time we did a drone competition sponsored by NASA, in which it was me (Italian), two guys and a girl from Mexico, and one local whose only job was to talk to the corporate types because they wanted to talk to a citizen.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#80

Post by lapnitnelav » Tue, Apr 07, 2020, 11:33 AM UTC

wickerman wrote: post #31

neumann wrote: post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

In Dublin, where the housing crisis is supported by an overabundance of "student accommodation" and airbnb rentals, the housing crisis disappeared overnight because of this virus. A friend of mine said she found a small apartment for two in Dublin 5 for 800 euro a month. Unbelievable.

Just had a wee look at Daft and the desperation starts to be quite obvious, with the prices being slashed and some offering 2 months rent free.

Good. May they collapse swiftly.