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Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

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141–150 of 197 posts

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#141
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW anecdotally, I notice my resting HR is often elevated any time I'm sick, or even hungover.

Same here - cold, flu, infection, and yes, hangover. I always assumed it was the same for everyone, but apparently not everyone has an elevated heart rate when hung over - or perhaps they just don't notice it as much.

There's a condition called "Holiday Heart", which can be triggered by binge drinking. It can lead to palpitations, arrhythmia and atrial fibrillation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_heart_syndrome

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#142
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably there's a lot of blind speculation on HN about engineering/math/whatever as well, some of it quite dangerous. That's the price we pay for open discourse.

That danger is contingent on credulous readers being in position to act on the misinformation. When people here speculate about an airliner's flight envelope, misled readers generally aren't going to go crash 737s.

Nothing will save the credulous other than hard experience.

The problem with censorship is that you often just end up substituting one set of nonsense for another.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#143
post #135

So, I've been battling this bug for the last three weeks or so, probably caught it on the way back from my last job in Finland. I expected an empty plane instead it was packed like it was the last train out of San Fernando and everybody was scared there never would be another one. After a week or so symptoms started in spite of having self-isolated already after the flight, so that's why I figure that is where I caug…

I totally agree with your "wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy" - this is probably the worst pneumonia-flu-like sickness I went (still going?) through. I am now convinced that if I will catch it (or some mutated off-spring of this) again, I might not make it. Looks like I got it too about 3 or 4 weeks ago. No cough, no fewer, just a growing chest pain. Went to doctor back then, he prescribed antibiotics against pneu…

You too, hang in there.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#144
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we are seeing a lot more dead in heavily affected regions. and there is no statistics about why they died... Personally I think this is quite worrying with a lot of people now thinking we put masks on and then can go back to work. If this is indeed having serious side effects, we need to eradicate this. Meaning total lockdown except absolute necessities (e.g. ask: will people die of physical reasons if this service i…

Does this mean that, for one brief shining moment, we can live without the drone of leaf blowers?

that would be heaven

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#145
post #136

So, I've been battling this bug for the last three weeks or so, probably caught it on the way back from my last job in Finland. I expected an empty plane instead it was packed like it was the last train out of San Fernando and everybody was scared there never would be another one. After a week or so symptoms started in spite of having self-isolated already after the flight, so that's why I figure that is where I caug…

Get well soon Jacques!

Thank you Dan, sure hope so. I've really had enough of this. Especially the stupid cough, I feel like a dog that just can't stop barking.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#146
There's a growing body of evidence that C19 attacks hemoglobin in the blood, with the effects similar to malaria (where the parasite uses hemoglobin as a nutrient source): blood with depleted hemoglobin simply can't carry as much oxygen, so people start gasping for air, their lungs swell, and then pneumonia kills them. Crucially, gasping for air seems to happen well before the onset of pneumonia. This also explains why diabetics are more severely affected.

If that's the case, ventilators aren't going to help if you use air in them, without supplemental oxygen: even if you pump air into the patient's lungs, their blood simply won't be able to carry sufficient oxygen. You need to supplement with oxygen.

It also explains why (hydroxy)chloroquine helps: if it stops/reduces depletion of hemoglobin (which it does [*]), the patient may never progress to pneumonia, because their blood is able to carry sufficient oxygen.

For those who already have pneumonia, supplemental oxygen would be vital if they also have C19. Standard ARDS treatment protocol will not work well.

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surf...

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#147
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients without pneumonia complications That's exactly what they're seeing, and why this article was written: "An initial study found cardiac damage in as many as 1 in 5 patients, leading to heart failure and death even among those who show no signs of respiratory distress ." Unfortunately the article doesn't say what percent of people with cardiac damage did not have respi…

From the article: Patients who had heart disease before their coronavirus infections were much more likely to show heart damage afterward. But some patients with no previous heart disease also showed signs of cardiac damage. In fact, patients with no preexisting heart conditions who incurred heart damage during their infection were more likely to die than patients with previous heart disease but no COVID-19-induced c…

Worse than undiagnosed, they are unmanaged preexisting heart conditions.

If two people have similar heart damage but one knows about it and manages the hypertension that caused it, who is in worse shape if a disease adds stress to your system?

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't happen. We can't go in lockdown for 2 or three years..

Probably not for even another month. Because it will stop working, for practical reasons. People will have to go back to work, or be evicted. Go out for necessities, shopping around to find any, increasing their exposure instead of decreasing it. Go job interviewing. All sorts of fallout, which actually increases travel and potential infection, instead of reducing it. Its easy for us middle-class folks to say "Just s…

Right. What I'm really hoping is that those of us who were going into an office to do a job that everyone involved fully well knew could be done from home (e.g., software dev) won't be forced back into close-quarters again just because a "safe-at-home" order has been lifted (besides, I have asthma and my wife has hypertension).

Until we beat this thing (which probably means a vaccine being widely-available, so... another year at least), any job that can be done remotely, should absolutely be done remotely. And I, for one, won't be setting foot in a cafe or restaurant or going to a conference until this is all over.

And my kids won't be going back to school either. Guess we're homeschooling now.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#149
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be said about any time, any disease, or well... anything ever on internet. I for one am glad folks share their opinions here, if one can't distinguish between speculations, opinions and facts then problem lies elsewhere. I too have my wife a doctor, and I was shocked how little and behind-the-curve their covid infection information is. Most specialist doctors here treated covid in 'what the heck are people…

> Most specialist doctors here treated covid in 'what the heck are people worried about, just another flu, right' fashion till maybe 2 weeks ago. I consider statements about what "most specialist doctors" were doing, especially without citation, to be a form of the misinformation I'm talking about. If there were people who didn't take the oncoming pandemic seriously enough, they should probably revisit their priors a…

Dude you are so out of touch here - I was talking about our friends - if your wife is indeed a doctor, then you have tons of those in your inner circle. This is first hand experience, nothing less, in biggest Swiss hospital, nothing less. There you have it, a citation from person directly talking to those mentioned.

An update - just learned that 1 year old daughter of our friends, both are doctors, is tested positive, probably from her nursery/child carer. The poor little thing is sick for more than a week. They still think they are OK to continue to work and not being sick since only one of them shows mild symptoms which could be anything. How the fuck is that possible? With doctors? En Suisse?

Some doctors, while experts in their narrow field, are just doing what they are told and don't do much research outside of their field. Please don't tell everybody to just blindly trust appointed experts, that can be a dangerous advice in these times.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#150

This headline is definitely a lot scarier than the actual body of the study. The most likely cause of the heart damage by far is the systemic inflammation induced by pneumonia. We know this because pneumonia patients of all types often have heart strain afterwards[1]. But that damage is very rarely permanent as the risk subsides back to baseline given enough time. Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients wit…

myocarditis can happen from any virus infection it doesn't have to involve pneumonia

lots of young athletes die from it after coming back too hard/fast from flu

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