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Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

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Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#101

Post by jakogut »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #86

So, I've been battling this bug for the last three weeks or so, probably caught it on the way back from my last job in Finland. I expected an empty plane instead it was packed like it was the last train out of San Fernando and everybody was scared there never would be another one. After a week or so symptoms started in spite of having self-isolated already after the flight, so that's why I figure that is where I caug…

There is a hypothesis [0] that the virus attacks red blood cells and impacts their capacity to transport O2, and that the lung damage is actually caused by that, and not directly by the virus. Elevated heart rate makes a lot of sense. [0] see thread and linked paper: https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1244717172871409666

> There is a theory [0] (unproven!)

Would it be more appropriate then to call it a hypothesis?

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#102

Post by Fjolsvith »

jobu wrote: post #82
dcolkitt wrote: post #28

This headline is definitely a lot scarier than the actual body of the study. The most likely cause of the heart damage by far is the systemic inflammation induced by pneumonia. We know this because pneumonia patients of all types often have heart strain afterwards[1]. But that damage is very rarely permanent as the risk subsides back to baseline given enough time. Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients wit…

> Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients without pneumonia complications That's exactly what they're seeing, and why this article was written: "An initial study found cardiac damage in as many as 1 in 5 patients, leading to heart failure and death even among those who show no signs of respiratory distress ." Unfortunately the article doesn't say what percent of people with cardiac damage did not have respi…

From the article:

Patients who had heart disease before their coronavirus infections were much more likely to show heart damage afterward. But some patients with no previous heart disease also showed signs of cardiac damage. In fact, patients with no preexisting heart conditions who incurred heart damage during their infection were more likely to die than patients with previous heart disease but no COVID-19-induced cardiac damage.

Isn't it likely that the patients who had no preexisting heart conditions actually had undiagnosed preexisting heart conditions?

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#103

Post by nitrogen »

daxorid wrote: post #87
throwawaylalala wrote: post #56

Scroll down to figure 1. Non survivors end up with cardiac and kidney injury. Interesting that this might shine light on the cause. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Thanks. Specifically, from your citation: "In addition, angiotensin converting enzyme 2, the receptor for SARS-CoV-2, is expressed on myocytes and vascular endothelial cells, so there is at least theoretical potential possibility of direct cardiac involvement by the virus" The most sane hypothesis I've seen is that the virus will attack any cell with the ACE2 receptor, including the heart and kidneys: "Angiotensin co…

Would that last point allow SARS-CoV-2 to become an endogenous virus?

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#104

Post by schwap »

jacquesm wrote: post #86

So, I've been battling this bug for the last three weeks or so, probably caught it on the way back from my last job in Finland. I expected an empty plane instead it was packed like it was the last train out of San Fernando and everybody was scared there never would be another one. After a week or so symptoms started in spite of having self-isolated already after the flight, so that's why I figure that is where I caug…

FWIW anecdotally, I notice my resting HR is often elevated any time I'm sick, or even hungover.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#105

Post by empath75 »

411111111111111 wrote: post #31

let me preface this by mentioning that i havent been tested for covid-19. two weeks ago i've been having real issues breathing. it felt like my upper body was borderline paralyzed and i had to really force myself to fully breathe in. this wasn't constant but happened every day for several hours each. especially at night. i got worried that i might have the virus so i checked my temperature and oxygen blood saturation…

I'm someone who has intermittent panic attacks and all of that sounds like panic attacks to me.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#106

Post by Benmcdonald__ »

dcolkitt wrote: post #28

This headline is definitely a lot scarier than the actual body of the study. The most likely cause of the heart damage by far is the systemic inflammation induced by pneumonia. We know this because pneumonia patients of all types often have heart strain afterwards[1]. But that damage is very rarely permanent as the risk subsides back to baseline given enough time. Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients wit…

There are plenty of dead young people. 1 in 500 from most data. I personally wouldn't describe that as low risk

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#107

Post by jshevek »

freehunter wrote: post #39
jpxw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how exactly it is “dangerous”?

Speculation on treatments for Covid-19 has already killed people: https://ktla.com/news/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-form-of-...

All events are the result of a complex web of causal histories. The choice of which factors to focus on sometimes depend on the biases of the speaker.

In this case, a Darwin award seems more appropriate to me than blaming anyone for speculating based on low quality data.

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#108

Post by jshevek »

cowpig wrote: post #33

There's so much blind speculation in this comment section. The kind that's intriguing and fun when it's about engineering/math/whatever, but dangerous when it's about the health effects of an ongoing pandemic. I hope moderators do something about it.

What would you want moderators to do?

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#109

Post by paulsutter »

dcolkitt wrote: post #28

This headline is definitely a lot scarier than the actual body of the study. The most likely cause of the heart damage by far is the systemic inflammation induced by pneumonia. We know this because pneumonia patients of all types often have heart strain afterwards[1]. But that damage is very rarely permanent as the risk subsides back to baseline given enough time. Until we see evidence of heart issues in patients wit…

Hospitalization rates for people aged 20-44 are in the range of 15% to 20%. You might want to read up on the experience of COVID-19 hospitalization before you decide that there's little risk from infection.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105402/covid-hospitaliz...

Re: Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling Covid-19 patients

#110

Post by pubstik »

dboreham wrote: post #73
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's premature, no. We have a lot of data indicating that it's a respiratory disease. It should be studied, almost any coronavirus anomaly is worth studying, but we know what conclusion to expect.

Based on all the YouTube videos by doctors I've watched, heart failure is a known, expected and quite common consequence of severe respiratory disease.

I would find a better authority than 'youtube doctors' for the health of anyone you love. Some are great, but all are in it for attention. The ultimate motives of many online attenion seekers, no matter their profession are, lets say, unclear.
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