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New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

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Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#21

Post by addicted »

nihil75 wrote: post #9

"I bet Microsoft is behind this" I thought, and sure enough - found the obligatory Teams push in there.

Maybe because MS has a good solution that isn’t riddled with privacy issues?

What’s actually behind this is the threat of a mountain of lawsuits that are gonna come descending on school systems that compromise little kids’ privacy by forcing them to use Zoom.

If the images of one child during their private moments show up on the internet because Zoom has so many vilnerabilities and a malicious actor was able to control the students camera school systems are gonna get sued out of their existence.

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#22

Post by eagsalazar2 »

irjustin wrote: post #7
simonh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about videos of children in their homes, in many cases probably their bedrooms. If they have to use it for school, they may also use it with their friends other than for school work as they will have it set up and know how to use it. I think the risks of illicit access to that material are pretty clear, and there are several serious vulnerabilities in Zoom that can grant direct access to video chats and…

So why target Zoom specifically? You're asking a broader question of children's safety. 100% it's a valid concern, but video tele-learning should be under fire then.

Zoom isn't being "targeted". They have repeatedly been in the news for gross security failures and personal privacy abuses. Other video services have not because they have not had this series of failures and abuses. That is not "targeting" zoom, that is reality being appropriately reported that zoom has bad and suspicious security practices and probably should be avoided.

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#23

Post by est31 »

arcticbull wrote: post #16
simonh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about videos of children in their homes, in many cases probably their bedrooms. If they have to use it for school, they may also use it with their friends other than for school work as they will have it set up and know how to use it. I think the risks of illicit access to that material are pretty clear, and there are several serious vulnerabilities in Zoom that can grant direct access to video chats and…

None of that, while distasteful seems to signal any national security or personal security risk. This seems pretty hyperbolic. Why on earth would the Chinese government want access to videos of children in bedrooms? Ridiculous.

There are more reasons to not give access than personal or national security. Privacy is one. We shouldn't be in a situation where you need to explain why you need privacy. It should be the default.

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#24

Post by Krasnol »

addicted wrote: post #21
nihil75 wrote: post #9

"I bet Microsoft is behind this" I thought, and sure enough - found the obligatory Teams push in there.

Maybe because MS has a good solution that isn’t riddled with privacy issues? What’s actually behind this is the threat of a mountain of lawsuits that are gonna come descending on school systems that compromise little kids’ privacy by forcing them to use Zoom. If the images of one child during their private moments show up on the internet because Zoom has so many vilnerabilities and a malicious actor was able to contr…

You mean besides the usual privacy issues in the operating system or Office 365?

https://thenextweb.com/privacy/2019/07/15/german-schools-ban...

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#25

Post by satysin »

irjustin wrote: post #4

As the previous discussion already noted it seems disingenuous. Spacex has real security concerns with national security secrets and trade assets. Schools primary goal should be accessibility when it comes to teaching and Zoom arguably with its better video/audio has the best even with glaring security flaws (that do not necessarily seem decidedly worse than Hangouts). Banning Zoom seems to be getting on the negative…

I respectfully disagree. I feel it is safe to say that Zoom have some serious issues in their development process. It seems every other day there is some new issue. Install fuckery on macOS, lying about E2EE, including code they did not properly understand, etc.

We talk so much about wanting to protect children that we should not be using software that gives audio and video access to their computers that we do not have confidence in.

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#26

Post by thefounder »

satysin wrote: post #25
irjustin wrote: post #4

As the previous discussion already noted it seems disingenuous. Spacex has real security concerns with national security secrets and trade assets. Schools primary goal should be accessibility when it comes to teaching and Zoom arguably with its better video/audio has the best even with glaring security flaws (that do not necessarily seem decidedly worse than Hangouts). Banning Zoom seems to be getting on the negative…

I respectfully disagree. I feel it is safe to say that Zoom have some serious issues in their development process. It seems every other day there is some new issue. Install fuckery on macOS, lying about E2EE, including code they did not properly understand, etc. We talk so much about wanting to protect children that we should not be using software that gives audio and video access to their computers that we do not ha…

>> including code they did not properly understand, etc. Yeah we understand all of our code, right? I'm developing an Electron app. I let you guess how much I know about the code behind electron/chronium.

>> We talk so much about wanting to protect children that we should not be using software that gives audio and video access to their computers that we do not have confidence in.

Let's start banning facebook. Shall we?

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#27

Post by zulln »

Nullabillity wrote: post #5
irjustin wrote: post #4

As the previous discussion already noted it seems disingenuous. Spacex has real security concerns with national security secrets and trade assets. Schools primary goal should be accessibility when it comes to teaching and Zoom arguably with its better video/audio has the best even with glaring security flaws (that do not necessarily seem decidedly worse than Hangouts). Banning Zoom seems to be getting on the negative…

How on earth is it acceptable to force students (who have pretty much no position to argue) to install what is effectively malware?

You can use Zoom online without installing anything.

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#28

Post by arcticbull »

est31 wrote: post #23
arcticbull wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that, while distasteful seems to signal any national security or personal security risk. This seems pretty hyperbolic. Why on earth would the Chinese government want access to videos of children in bedrooms? Ridiculous.

There are more reasons to not give access than personal or national security. Privacy is one. We shouldn't be in a situation where you need to explain why you need privacy. It should be the default.

I don't disagree, I'm just tired of the (in this case blatant) "but think of the children" in situations where it's totally irrelevant.

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#29

Post by MaxBarraclough »

satysin wrote: post #25
irjustin wrote: post #4

As the previous discussion already noted it seems disingenuous. Spacex has real security concerns with national security secrets and trade assets. Schools primary goal should be accessibility when it comes to teaching and Zoom arguably with its better video/audio has the best even with glaring security flaws (that do not necessarily seem decidedly worse than Hangouts). Banning Zoom seems to be getting on the negative…

I respectfully disagree. I feel it is safe to say that Zoom have some serious issues in their development process. It seems every other day there is some new issue. Install fuckery on macOS, lying about E2EE, including code they did not properly understand, etc. We talk so much about wanting to protect children that we should not be using software that gives audio and video access to their computers that we do not ha…

Regarding the macOS installer: did this turn out to be real? Last time I saw this turn up, there seemed to be some question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22750619

Re: New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

#30

Post by Nullabillity »

zulln wrote: post #27
Nullabillity wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth is it acceptable to force students (who have pretty much no position to argue) to install what is effectively malware?

You can use Zoom online without installing anything.

After exhausting all other options. And the malware peddlers are still ultimately getting their payday.
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