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All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

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Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#131
post #90

So, I basically agree with everything this article says, but it seems to miss a basic point. If journalists do what this paper suggests, they make less money. Journalists, and the newsmedia corporations and organizations that employ them, don't run with the most inflammatory headline possible as an accidental fluke of a mistake that they were too careless to catch. Even public sector newsmedia organizations use measu…

> If there is one less to be learned from this whole Covid-19 debacle (and I'm sure there are several), it is that our entire news ecosystem, public and private, is fundamentally structured wrong for doing what is supposed to be its purpose, which is to make people better informed. It's not bad at it by mistake, it's bad at it as an inevitable consequence of its design. You speak of a failure in design as the root ca…

From the BBC's mission statement: to act in the public interest, serving all audiences through the provision of impartial, high-quality and distinctive output and services which inform, educate* and entertain.*

From the CBC's mandate: the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, as the national public broadcaster, should provide radio and television services incorporating a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens* and entertains*

From PBS's mission statement: PBS is a membership organization that, in partnership with its member stations, serves the American public with programming and services of the highest quality, using media to educate, inspire, entertain and express a diversity of perspectives. PBS empowers individuals to achieve their potential and strengthen the social, democratic, and cultural health of the U.S.

You'll find that kind of language repeated for most public broadcasters. The corruption of those ideals by private enterprise in the name of profit should not come as a surprise.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#132
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're known for this because both activists and entrenched business interests benefit from promoting that narrative. Gates and Bezos both regularly talk about the impact they have on the world and why that matters more than just money - there are reasonable arguments that they've done bad things, but the idea that they're completely amoral voids is just silly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... . https://www.theverge.com/interface/2020/4/1/21201162/amazon-... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inside-an-amazon-warehouse-trea... "The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my Amazon winnings into space travel. That is basically it." - Bezos Gates's philanthropy is fine, but my comment was on his business dealing…

Nestle poisons entire cities and has killed thousands of babies.

Name anyone who died from a single thing 90s Microsoft did.

The modern tech giants take actions every day that are far more anti competitive than anything Microsoft ever did.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#133

Regarding the "all models are wrong" maxim... Is that statement 100% true for the low-level models that physicists use and develop? In particular, I'm curious if quantum-physics models are 100% right, just not 100% precise.

Yes, it is completely true, and not in a probabilistic way, either. A model is a mathematical construction which relates observations to predictions. However, there is no epistemic basis by which predictions can be turned into observations; we can never ultimately draw conclusions just based on inferences.

Perhaps you have heard of the idea that "the map is not the territory" [0]. Models can never be exactly descriptions of reality, not without some sort of special rationale and argument from the outside of reality.

In particular, QM models aren't 100% right. Gravity is missing almost entirely from the model (!) and there are some glaring experimental discrepancies, particularly around the vacuum catastrophe [1]. We know that the combination of QM and relativity gives a hybridized model that cannot work at all scales but explains things like the color of gold [2], so we know that there ought to be a single unified model which does work at all scales and has the same explanatory power.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_quantum_chemistry

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#134
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is one less to be learned from this whole Covid-19 debacle (and I'm sure there are several), it is that our entire news ecosystem, public and private, is fundamentally structured wrong for doing what is supposed to be its purpose, which is to make people better informed. It's not bad at it by mistake, it's bad at it as an inevitable consequence of its design. You speak of a failure in design as the root ca…

If you're smart enough to come up with a point like this, why not use that intelligence to make a less inane point? You're not wrong, you're just correct in a way that responds to a very narrow reading of what your parent comment was saying, and doesn't make any attempt to figure out why they'd be saying it. Clearly the person you're responding to wants a system that makes people better informed, and I think there's…

> So the question is obviously, how do we change the news ecosystem from what it is, to a system that makes people better informed?

People tend to want their worldview confirmed. If you want people to be better informed, one way would be to make them angry when they encounter things designed to manipulate them.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#135
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny, but when you point out that a bad analogy is actually pretty accurate if you actually know anything about the other concept , people don’t want to talk about it any more. We all know that hill climbing algorithms are often naive and sometimes hilariously wrong. Nobody will disagree with you about this, until you start talking about prioritizing work, and then everyone vigorously defends their favorite hil…

Can you elaborate on your preferred strategy?

Performance is just budgeting. It's opportunity costs (versus expected return on the investment). It's time, materials, risk/scheduling uncertainty, and in many cases, externalities. Interestingly enough, I don't think you need to explain any of this to game designers. They seem to know this. It even appears to be the dogmatic in some circles.

When you are way over budget, every cost needs to go on the table, but your end goal is one of the most important pieces of information. That should go on the wall, in large block letters.

Look at a real budget. If you are deep in the red, it doesn't matter that your car is only 10% of how much you spend a month. What matters is that the car is 25% of your target. That is a ridiculous amount to spend on your car, even though your house is way more. Even if you spend an ungodly amount on dry cleaning or coffee, you're going to have to trade down for a cheaper car. You don't need charts to tell you this. In fact all the charts can do is convince you that nothing needs to be done. They allow you to bargain.

Therefore, I don't give a shit if you think that this function which accounts for "only 5%" of the current run time "is fine". It's 13% of our time budget on some mundane task that doesn't really make us money. It is not fine. You cannot justify 1/8th of our budget for this thing. It's gonna be fixed, and if you have no idea how, you'd better start thinking about it now, because we're gonna come back to it soon and if you don't have a solution then you might find that code is now someone else's responsibility.

But I said something about the 'fruit tree' analogy and I'm a full page of text in without a peep.

So the thing is that when you're thinking about big budgetary changes, it's more manageable to do it one subject matter at a time. Pick a 'ripe' area and glean it for everything it's worth. So I might pitch that I think I can get 30% improvement out of the edit/update code. Can I have this much time to do it? Okay. I might get half of that goal in the first couple weeks. Half of the rest in the next, but at the end of it, the last thing I touch is probably only going to get 3%. But 3% is 10% of what I promised, so I can justify it, and if they aren't complaining about the timeline, I may try to squeeze in some 1-2% things at the end in a way I can pull the plug if it looks too risky.

The important thing to note here is that it will never, ever be as cheap as it is right now to touch that 3% code. Everyone is already thinking about it, everyone knows to keep an eye on it, and new test plans are being developed, documentation and customer training plans are being updated. If I don't touch it now, that target of opportunity might never come again. That 3% plays out everywhere in the code, and I will never be able to get budget to fix any of them (I'll have to sneak them in on a refactor or leave them forever). A dozen of these is not that hard to end up with, and our code is 40% slower than it could be (or worst of all, than a competitor). If that's just the time for a button click, fine. If it's on our slowest operation and things time out, customers with larger data can't function, or they have to buy the absolute most expensive machines instead of slightly better than average? That's not fine. But everyone feels perfectly justified in never doing anything about it.

Next release, I can pitch for 25% in some other functional area, and another, and another. Last time I did this, it took over 20 months before I ran out of functional areas to work on. Every release for 'years' was faster than the previous. At the end, I knew that code better than anyone (an important point I omitted - focusing that intently on one section teaches people a hell of a lot about the code they otherwise would never know). I probably could have swung through for another 10% in every area, but by then I was ready for a new gig.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#136
I am working on trying to make an accurate model for predicting COVID-19 growth based on the per-county figures we have with COVID-19 (courtesy The New York Times). To say the data is noisy would be an understatement.

What I have found, so far, is that if we look at current daily growth (averaged over seven days) and use exponentiation to predict future growth based on the previous week’s figures, the numbers are too high (usually by a factor of two, but the error amount is all over the place).

Point being, we’re seeing a more complicated growth model than simple exponential growth; the actual growth is lower.

My work so far is on GitHub: https://github.com/samboy/covid-19-html

This is a work in progress and I’m nowhere near being able to make a simple easy to read graph showing a reasonable projection of COVID-19 growth in the United States.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#137
Regarding rule 2: I stumbled across https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/working-with-us/for-journ... which does a decent job of aggregating expert reactions to questions that pop up in the media.

I have many more issues with current journalism than the author of the blog post, rooted in their "fire & forget" nature of publications (no visible revisions, no corrections, almost all currently accessible articles are too old to be useful or even correct).

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#138

> Journalists must get quotes from other experts before publishing No, this isn't enough. This whole way of thinking isn't enough. It's a big part of the reason for the current situation. Journalists should report what's true, not what Tom, Dick or Harry said. If a journalist isn't qualified to make object-level claims on a given topic, don't write on that topic. For example, if Bob says there's a forest fire, then i…

That's a bad example. Take the claim:

- 3 million people lost their jobs .

- 3 million people lost their jobs, according to

- 3 million people lost their jobs, according to , while estimates as many as 5 million during the same time frame.

Which one of these is the best framing of "the truth?" Because rarely is something worth reporting on some axiomatic statement of fact. Not only because boolean states don't normally exist - they're not compelling.

A journalist's job isn't just to tell you something happened. But to give you understanding and context, and make it compelling. What you're asking for is Wikipedia, not the news.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#139

Author here: happy to take comments or criticism

I think starting with the global warming example was a poor choice because there are a lot of vested interests who would find something to attack and distort even in a flawless paper.

Re: All models are wrong, but some are completely wrong

#140
The author tries to make it as if the scientific models are mainly correct except from one odd mistake which is used to discredit the whole research but this is not exactly the situation. Models are a predictive tools not a scientific fact and we have to remember that.

Nobody can predict how this Corona situation will pan out, different countries take different approaches and the results don't seem to have a conclusive pattern or model, no model can explain the differences between Sweden, Japan, Italy and why they exists. People can sense that the models are just not good enough and it is not because of an odd mistake, the odd mistake is just a scapegoat to a very strong and probably correct gut feeling or common sense about the models margin of error.

The same thing goes for climate change, it is not about the details, it is a deep scepticism about the ability to create a model for futuristic problems of such a complicated system, let alone of the solution to the problems. If we can't even model properly something that is happening right now how can we expect to model the future?

We all remember the modelling of the ozone layer issue, a modelling that in hindsight was wrong as the hole is closing now and nobody can explain why even though with the rise of China the use of the very things that are causing it like aerosols just increased over all and yet the hole is closing.

So I am not saying models are useless as a tool and not that should be entirely ignored, but a bit of scepticism about the ability of scientists to predict the future is pretty healthy.

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