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New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

webkit.org

41–50 of 60 posts

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#41

> Async Clipboard API > The implementation is available through the navigator.clipboard API which must be called within user gesture event handlers like pointerdown or pointerup, and only works for content served in a secure context (e.g. https:// ). Instead of a permissions-based model for reading from the clipboard, a native UI is displayed when the page calls into the clipboard API; the clipboard can only be acces…

I’m not sure who else has implemented this API so far, but I believe they mostly use explicit permissions instead.

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#42
post #9

> These improvements are available to users running watchOS 6.2 [...] I would like more information about Safari being available on Apple Watch. Normally I'd think it's inclusion was an accident or oversight, but it's mentioned at both the top and the bottom of the article.

Not a standalone browser app, but if I tap a link in say the watchOS Mail app, it'll display a web view. Developers can optimize their site for the watch display. It might sound crazy but it's useful for glancing at brief information on the web.

Exactly this. It’s not full Safari, more of a way to not dead end when someone messages you a link and you look at the message on your watch.

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#43

At least I think WebRTC was mentioned, been dying for more fixes to issues.

With today's remote work and overuse of the internet, WebRTC is really critical. Same with WebP -- the bandwidth savings there could be immense in a time when we're using more internet than ever. I'm disappointed in Apple's lack of investment in these things, and it feels like they're out of touch.

We’ve worked hard to deliver WebRTC and make it better over time. If you have specific bugs to report, please share!

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#44
post #2

No Web Push API. No fixes for SameSite Lax cookies under service worker routes. No page lifecycle API so we better handle iOS PWAs.

We’d love your feedback on how you are looking to use these APIs. A lot of our work is driven by developer feedback.

Also, for the SameSite Lax thing, can you explain a bit more? That sounds like a bug. If you have a reproducible case, please file at bugs.webkit.org and let me know the Bug ID.

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#45

Still doing everything they can to hold back PWA's, I see. Their browser monopoly on ios can only last so long. The same strategy backfired horribly for ms in the ie6 days. (And no, you can't install an alternate browser on ios. It's just a crippled "skinned" shell on top of safari)

How is this large set of web platform improvements evidence of holding back PWAs?

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#46

Pointer Events, nearly one full decade after Microsoft implented them in IE10! Way to skate to the puck AAPL!

We actually shipped pointer events a while ago. What’s new here is support for an external mouse or trackpad attached to an iPad generating real mouse events (and mouse type pointer events) instead of touch events.

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#47
Great improvements! It’s comforting that Apple is still prioritizing the browser. Though I’d wish they’d focus even more resources on it. Given all they spend on iOS native it would be sound if a slice of that could be towards Safari.

The new hint values for the soft key enter is a small but very useful addition!

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#48
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has intentionally crippled WebRTC for years to stifle FaceTime competition and drive up dev costs by forcing native app development. The video chat startup I co-founded in 2015 was impacted. https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU05/20190716/109793/HHRG...

Why pray tell would Apple want to “stifle” competition for FaceTime? It’s not like Apple makes money from it. And then they are stifling competition for their app - by “forcing” you to create an app that integrates with dialer and your call history? Maybe your startup was “impacted” by not having the expertise or funding to create a native app like at least a dozen companies have done?

> Why pray tell would Apple want to “stifle” competition for FaceTime? It’s not like Apple makes money from it.

FaceTime and Messages (blue bubbles) are the only strong lock-in Apple has beyond brand effect. People don't buy iPhones over Android for Maps or Mail: they do it for the camera, FaceTime, and the blue bubbles. See the comparative market irrelevance of iPads, Macs, and other Apple products.

> And then they are stifling competition for their app - by “forcing” you to create an app that integrates with dialer and your call history?

They force developers to choose / balance resources between iOS and the web. Because the desirable users are on iOS, resources must be wasted on proprietary native apps instead of cross-platform web apps that would theoretically work on any device/OS.

They specifically want to funnel apps through the App Store, so that they can gouge developers for 30%.

> Maybe your startup was “impacted” by not having the expertise or funding to create a native app like at least a dozen companies have done?

My case isn't representative: we did have the expertise and the funding, we built the native app, we found product-market-channel-model fit, and after I stepped away, they've expanded internationally and closed a Series A this year. For us, the impact was diverting tens of thousands of dollars to Swift development. At the time we saw this as merely technical reality: we also built an Android app for performance reasons.

That was years ago. By now, there should be many competitive video conferencing web apps that work across devices, and there aren't.

At this point Apple's anti-competitiveness has become undeniable. It looks like the Justice Dept is setting up to slam them for bundling/tying Safari to iOS as they did Microsoft with IE/Windows (the ruling that popped the dot com bubble).

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#49
post #40
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has intentionally crippled WebRTC for years to stifle FaceTime competition and drive up dev costs by forcing native app development. The video chat startup I co-founded in 2015 was impacted. https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU05/20190716/109793/HHRG...

This is all that PDF has to say about WebRTC: > WebRTC for videoconferencing is not supported for third-party browsers because Safari displays a prominent UI to make sure the user knows when a website is recording using the camera and microphone. Apple does not yet have a way to make this UI work in other WebKit clients. That's a far cry from what you're insinuating.

Safari didn't support WebRTC until 2017. iOS doesn't support third-party browser engines, and third-party browser apps (i.e. embedded web views) have issues because... they haven't figured out the UI yet.

Safari also doesn't support service workers or the fullscreen API.

Re: New WebKit Features in Safari 13.1

#50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why pray tell would Apple want to “stifle” competition for FaceTime? It’s not like Apple makes money from it. And then they are stifling competition for their app - by “forcing” you to create an app that integrates with dialer and your call history? Maybe your startup was “impacted” by not having the expertise or funding to create a native app like at least a dozen companies have done?

> Why pray tell would Apple want to “stifle” competition for FaceTime? It’s not like Apple makes money from it. FaceTime and Messages (blue bubbles) are the only strong lock-in Apple has beyond brand effect. People don't buy iPhones over Android for Maps or Mail: they do it for the camera, FaceTime, and the blue bubbles. See the comparative market irrelevance of iPads, Macs, and other Apple products. > And then they…

FaceTime and Messages (blue bubbles) are the only strong lock-in Apple has beyond brand effect. People don't buy iPhones over Android for Maps or Mail: they do it for the camera, FaceTime, and the blue bubbles. See the comparative market irrelevance of iPads, Macs, and other Apple products.

So you think FaceTime and “green bubbles” is the only reason that people spend more than twice as much on iPhones than Androids - even though cross platform chat/video call apps like WhatsApp and Messenger are far more popular - even on iPhones?

iPads are the only tablets that actually sell worth anything and the average selling cost of Macs are twice that of the average PC.

Also, the personal computer isn’t nearly as relevant as it use to be. Apple alone sells more iPhones than all consumer PCs combined and it only has about a 13% worldwide market share.

My case isn't representative: we did have the expertise and the funding, we built the native app, we found product-market-channel-model fit, and after I stepped away, they've expanded internationally and closed a Series A this year. For us, the impact was diverting tens of thousands of dollars to Swift

So you built an iOS app because of Safari and Apple’s evil lock in but you ended up spending money on an Android app anyway. So it was irrelevant because you couldn’t go to market with just a web app anyway....

They force developers to choose / balance resources between iOS and the web. Because the desirable users are on iOS, resources must be wasted on proprietary native apps instead of cross-platform web apps that would theoretically work on any device/OS.

But you just admitted that you had to end up building an Android app anyway because the performance of the web app was unacceptable. So even though Chrome supported the standards you needed, the crappy hardware on most Android phones made you produce an Android app.

I’m sure the desirable users only choose iPhones because of a FaceTime and “green bubbles”...

They specifically want to funnel apps through the App Store, so that they can gouge developers for 30%.

Again there is an existence proof that isn’t true. Not only does Apple not force app developers to go through their store for subscriptions - there are plenty that don’t - you can’t pay for a subscription to Zoom for instance through the App Store.

At this point Apple's anti-competitiveness has become undeniable. It looks like the Justice Dept is setting up to slam them for bundling/tying Safari to iOS as they did Microsoft with IE/Windows (the ruling that popped the dot com bubble).

There is an existence proof that you are wrong about the Justice Department “forced” Microsoft to unbundle IE and Windows. IE is still bundled with Windows over 20 years later.

For us, the impact was diverting tens of thousands of dollars to Swift development. At the time we saw this as merely technical reality: we also built an Android app for performance reasons. That was years ago. By now, there should be many competitive video conferencing web apps that work across devices, and there aren't.

Swift wasn’t introduced until 2014. Any startup that was crazy enough to use Swift then was making a very bad decision. Also the performance and hardware of the average Android phone is still crappy.

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