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Dirty Percent

daringfireball.net

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Re: Dirty Percent

#31

Post by lwhi »

pederb72 wrote: post #22
erikstarck wrote: post #9

I just know one thing: the moment Kindle is removed from the app store, I'm selling my iPad.

I'd love for Amazon to remove the DRM from their books, and just sell books in epub format which can be read on any device without a Kindle app. That would solve Amazon's problem with iOS/Apple, and also be an ideal solution for end users. EDIT: what I mean is, music is now sold without DRM. Why do we still need DRM for ebooks? I'd love to be able to just put all my ebooks in a Dropbox folder, and not depend on Amazo…

But if you'd like Amazon to make a concession as large as this, surely Apple should be asked to make a few concessions too?

Both companies sell IP - and both rely on a various forms of DRM to enforce scarcity. I think selling IP will eventually be seen as a fruitless (and unsustainable) pursuit - but for the time being this is a way both these companies are making a profit selling digital goods.

Re: Dirty Percent

#32

Post by zach »

fleitz wrote: post #8
Lewisham wrote: post #4

I used to be a big fan of Gruber, but I'm getting increasingly tired of his "defend Apple at all costs" mentality. When Apple was the underdog, it all seemed to be about not what was possible, but what was fair, and what was right. Now it's a "Well, of course Apple would do that, wouldn't you?" And he then punts on the biggest question of all: What if Microsoft did this with Windows, and, say, tried to require Apple…

I don't believe Costco publishes their vendor agreements so you really have no idea how Costco treats their suppliers. Also, no one complains that Google takes 32% of AdWords.

Well, we do know about Costco dropping Coca-Cola and Apple because Costco wasn't satisfied with the terms they were getting. They came to an agreement with Coke but Apple products are still gone.

If you're a retailer willing to drop Coca-Cola, we can pretty much assume you're a strong-willed company. Whether that leads to triumphs of principle over practicality or displays of pettiness is, I'd say, a matter of perspective.

Re: Dirty Percent

#33

Post by jonursenbach »

pederb72 wrote: post #22
erikstarck wrote: post #9

I just know one thing: the moment Kindle is removed from the app store, I'm selling my iPad.

I'd love for Amazon to remove the DRM from their books, and just sell books in epub format which can be read on any device without a Kindle app. That would solve Amazon's problem with iOS/Apple, and also be an ideal solution for end users. EDIT: what I mean is, music is now sold without DRM. Why do we still need DRM for ebooks? I'd love to be able to just put all my ebooks in a Dropbox folder, and not depend on Amazo…

Or just send the Kindle over to Cydia.

Re: Dirty Percent

#34

Post by siglesias »

solutionyogi wrote: post #26
siglesias wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad hominem. You should address logical flaws and false statements. And he was critical of Apple in two of the four points, so your premise is false. Edit: This discussion is also something of a strawman, attacking none of the important arguments made in the article. The point about what Gruber would say if Microsoft had done this is simply a preemption of an ad hominem attack against himself and it's quite unfortunat…

Ad Hominem? He said only one thing about 'Gruber' that he is tired of him. Rest of his comment was about Gruber's arguments and non arguments. I didn't see any Ad Hominem attack in the original comment. And how is Gruber's overall argument right if he is critical of Apple in two of the four points? How does that even make sense?

>>I used to be a big fan of Gruber, but I'm getting increasingly tired of his "defend Apple at all costs" mentality.

Contains a claim that Gruber's mentality is to defend Apple at all costs. Since Gruber does not do this in the post, it is a false claim.

This claim is used to lend credence to the idea that Gruber is in fact misrepresenting his feelings about Microsoft since the situation presented would force Gruber, with the presumption that he defends Apple at all costs, to say otherwise than what he said he would say. Except that the premise is false.

All of this makes you wonder why OP would single out this point to begin with since it's the least salient to the thrust of the article. This makes OP's point something of a straw man and character attack.

Re: Dirty Percent

#35

Post by apike »

ra88it wrote: post #27
apike wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was true until iBooks came out. Keep in mind that a 70% cut for the publisher for books is better than most authors traditionally get. Meanwhile, record labels' cuts are usually more than 90%.

Right, I realize they reversed the cut after iBooks came out. But so now it's 30%, just like Apple.

Even now, to get Amazon's cut down to 30% you need to agree to a list of restrictions about pricing and availability that are favourable to Amazon.

Re: Dirty Percent

#36

Post by martythemaniak »

Lewisham wrote: post #4

I used to be a big fan of Gruber, but I'm getting increasingly tired of his "defend Apple at all costs" mentality. When Apple was the underdog, it all seemed to be about not what was possible, but what was fair, and what was right. Now it's a "Well, of course Apple would do that, wouldn't you?" And he then punts on the biggest question of all: What if Microsoft did this with Windows, and, say, tried to require Apple…

I found it pretty hilarious when Gruber quoted Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

Gruber owes his good fortunes to being the premier Apple shill, and no amount of logic, reasoning, facts or ethics is going to change that.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/02/23/dhh-it-dept

Re: Dirty Percent

#37

Post by foljs »

kmfrk wrote: post #11

This feels like Gruber wanted to write an article from Apple's side, and felt an obligation to do so, but couldn't come up with any arguments nor solutions, yet still continued to write the piece out of obligation to his cause.

It feels that way, eh?

Now, how about how it reads?

Have you RTFA? Noticed the "arguments and solutions" in there, the ones that he "couldn't come up with"?

Re: Dirty Percent

#38

Post by kenjackson »

Gruber shows his colors here:

This is what galls some: Apple is doing this because they can, and no other company is in a position to do it.

People aren't bothered simply because other companies can't do this. If Google, MS, RIM, Amazon, and HP all did the same thing people wouldn't say, "Great... everyone can do it!"

People are upset that Apple can do it, and they are.

People have long told me that Apple is a benevolent company. They point to the PC market and say, "Apple never did what MS did". And my retort was always, they couldn't, but if they could they probably would have.

Now we're seeing it play out. If Apple could squeeze Intel or Dell or Compaq they would have. Apple's benefit though is they're not a monopoly, and likely won't be one. But to the extent that they've captured a large share of disposable income they will drain their partners for every last cent. Because as Gruber has stated, Apple doesn't need you, but you sure need them.

Re: Dirty Percent

#39

Post by ryanwaggoner »

Apple doesn’t give a damn about companies with business models that can’t afford a 70/30 split. Apple’s running a competitive business; competition is cold and hard.

These two statements are fundamentally at odds; it's highly unlikely that Apple is making more money from App Store purchases / subscriptions than from iOS hardware sales. Consequently, for Apple to be competitive, they need to offer as much value as possible to the user, so that more users will end up on their platform. Since many of the most popular apps are business models that can't afford a 70/30 split, Apple damn well better care about them. If I can't get Kindle, Netflix, Hulu, Dropbox, etc, etc. on an iPhone/iPad, I won't buy another one. Period.

Re: Dirty Percent

#40

Post by kenjackson »

kmfrk wrote: post #30
erikstarck wrote: post #9

I just know one thing: the moment Kindle is removed from the app store, I'm selling my iPad.

Apple have done a great job of undermining their impending iPad 2 launch. I was on board for buying one (or the iPad 3), until the 30% subscription debacle ensued.

Whoever at Apple said that the iPad2 was a speedbump and the real glory was iPad3 kind of killed the iPad2 for me. Who's going to buy a tablet that is going to be obsolete in 6 months?
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