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Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

theatlantic.com

41–50 of 315 posts

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#41

Almost more interesting than Reiki itself is the reflexive responses, bifurcating essentially into: 1. it's all mumbo jumbo 2. there's more in heaven and earth, my son Note that neither group is particularly interested in the empirical evidence, though group 1 will tend to take a louder cherry-picking feint at it. An empiricist mindset is really hard for humans to inhabit. We (scientistic hard-heads included) judge p…

There are two different kinds of empiricism, and they're in tension with each other. One kind is where specialists measure things and publish the measurements in journals. The other is where individuals try things for themselves and decide for themselves what they experienced.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#42

Many people are commenting that Reiki is like Meditation i.e. all mumbo jumbo placebo effect. This might persuade a lot of people to reject both without going through the experience. I have been a very infrequent practitioner of meditation since 2009. I am now a very different person and there is no way for me to measure how or what has changed in me. I am way more focused, happier and might I conservatively add the…

Genuinely interested, how did you get started with meditation?

Don’t know about that guy but I did it with Headspace. It’s guided meditation - he coaches you through it. I found it pretty helpful.

Nowadays I do guided yoga with YouTube videos but I try to keep the lessons from Headspace in mind while doing them - clear my mind, focus on my breathing, if my mind wanders gently bring it back, think about how my body feels etc.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#43

Many people are commenting that Reiki is like Meditation i.e. all mumbo jumbo placebo effect. This might persuade a lot of people to reject both without going through the experience. I have been a very infrequent practitioner of meditation since 2009. I am now a very different person and there is no way for me to measure how or what has changed in me. I am way more focused, happier and might I conservatively add the…

Genuinely interested, how did you get started with meditation?

Not OP, but for me what made it work, initially, was the Headspace app. Some people aren't a fan of the voice, but for me it was so much more pleasant than the usual breathy deep-oice I find in other apps/audio.

I'd say more than anything what matters is that it's a kind of program or has some schedule or structure. Perhaps ideally with a shared commitment (so, planned sessions with a 'host' and other participants). Doing this physically is difficult right now, obviously, but I imagine there's tons of 'online meditation groups' these days...

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#44
Who cares? Honestly, stop giving a crap about what other people do to make themselves happy, just don't try it if you don't think it will work. If no one is getting hurt, one person leaves happier and one person leaves richer, then it's a win-win-win (win-win, plus a win for society as a whole).

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#45
"Over the past two decades, a number of studies have shown that Reiki treatments help diminish the negative side effects of chemotherapy, improve surgical outcomes, regulate the autonomic nervous system, and dramatically alter people’s experience of physical and emotional pain associated with illness."

The article links, with the phrase "a number of studies" to what seems to be one study [1]. In this study it looks like they surveyed people who regularly attended reiki practitioners about their trips and found that these people reported positive results.

This doesn't seem like a very compelling study to me. Of course people who go to Reiki will think that it works. That doesn't mean that it does work. People think that placebos work.

I'd like to see a study where half of the Reiki guys are people put through a Reiki training course and the other half are people taught to do the opposite of the intended techniques.

On the one hand, I can see the value of a placebo like institution where people wave their hands and say and do soothing things, and if that makes you feel better, then great. I don't think we need to pretend like this is some kind of mystery though, except as it is a specific case of the more general placebo mystery - which is interesting.

Maybe they go this direction in the article. I stopped reading after it became clear they don't have good evidence that Reiki works.

This also reminds me of the story of an astrologer who genuinely believed in astrology and practiced it according to complicated rules. Somehow he makes a mistake or starts to doubt things, and starts giving people their astrology report (or whatever it would be called) as the opposite of what it should be. Sure enough, the opposite analysis worked just as well as the "correct" analysis.

1 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31638407

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#46
post #26

Human touch does trigger positive neurochemical cascades. We might understand how all this works much better in the future, perhaps we big improvements in in vivo imaging of biological processes. Maybe some future version of CARS microscopy that does not fry the cell; better theory on multi-scale processes in human biology; and much better fMRI than what we have now.

I think "can" is better than "does trigger" here. I know I am not alone in genuinely disliking physical contact with anyone at all, including strangers, friends, parents, pretty much anyone other than my wife. I put up with it for ease of social pleasantries, but otherwise am much more comfortable not touching than touching. Massages are at best pointless and at worst counterproductive for me.

[deleted]

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#47

"Over the past two decades, a number of studies have shown that Reiki treatments help diminish the negative side effects of chemotherapy, improve surgical outcomes, regulate the autonomic nervous system, and dramatically alter people’s experience of physical and emotional pain associated with illness." The article links, with the phrase "a number of studies" to what seems to be one study [1]. In this study it looks l…

If a placebo works generally then it works. Isn't all psychotherapy in a way just a placebo?

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#48

"Over the past two decades, a number of studies have shown that Reiki treatments help diminish the negative side effects of chemotherapy, improve surgical outcomes, regulate the autonomic nervous system, and dramatically alter people’s experience of physical and emotional pain associated with illness." The article links, with the phrase "a number of studies" to what seems to be one study [1]. In this study it looks l…

If a placebo works generally then it works. Isn't all psychotherapy in a way just a placebo?

At very least, reiki practitioners care (or pretend to care) about your well-being, which must be nice for people going through stressful things like cancer, especially if they don't have a good support system from family etc.

Astrologists and homeopaths might be equally effective in these cases.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#49
post #30

Almost more interesting than Reiki itself is the reflexive responses, bifurcating essentially into: 1. it's all mumbo jumbo 2. there's more in heaven and earth, my son Note that neither group is particularly interested in the empirical evidence, though group 1 will tend to take a louder cherry-picking feint at it. An empiricist mindset is really hard for humans to inhabit. We (scientistic hard-heads included) judge p…

Great comment and I apologize in advance for going off topic. We all have our mental models and it takes effort to re-evaluate and change them. And as the saying goes - there are no right models, only useful ones in some situations. Some are useful in more situations than others. Take “flat earth” model of the world. It’s not right, but it’s precise enough for the purposes of living in a village. Nothing wrong with t…

> I once started learning some chinese martial arts, and the instructor was a true believer in more than the fighting techniques, but the spirituality that comes with it. Very easily debunked by modern fact based science.

What kind of spirituality are you talking about, and how was this easily debunked? Honestly curious. I don't have any 'proper' spiritual beliefs myself, but I've found that a lot of them are dismissed not because they're debunked, but rather because of lacking rigorous study and evidence for/against them. I'd say that's an important distinction/nuance.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#50
Western medicine is, IMHO, too averse to exploiting the very real, very powerful, placebo effect. To get a treatment approved you need to prove that it's not a placebo, which excludes, of course... effective placebos.

In India, for example, a lot of family doctors don't see their job as curing the disease, but as giving the patient a feeling of agency and control over their lives. Letting them feel like they're doing something. So when a patient comes to them, the feel that their job is to give them a pill, and a pill is what they will get. If they have a treatable condition they'll get a pill that treats the condition, otherwise they'll get a random herbal tincture or similar, something foul-tasting that gives the patient whatever relief the placebo effect can deliver.

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