Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it? • Hacker News Board

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#31

Post by connectsnk » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:11 AM UTC

Many people are commenting that Reiki is like Meditation i.e. all mumbo jumbo placebo effect. This might persuade a lot of people to reject both without going through the experience.

I have been a very infrequent practitioner of meditation since 2009. I am now a very different person and there is no way for me to measure how or what has changed in me. I am way more focused, happier and might I conservatively add the word "successful" in my married life as well as financially.

As most of us have a very scientific attitude towards life, we all can atleast experiment with it. If it works for us, then good. If it doesn't, just move ahead. I have no instrument which can measure my experience but I don't need to google it to know if it has worked for me or not.

Again all I am saying is that please dont have the attitude "Whatever is not written in the books we studied or if there is something we can not explain with our logic, then it must be mumbo jumbo" is the ultimate ignorance. I am not saying that we stop doubting and accept Reiki at face value. I am just saying to keep a scientific attitude, experiment with it and see if it works

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#32

Post by sneak » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

jayjay71 wrote: post #14

fortran77 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if you google, you'll see everyone from Chiropractors to acupuncturists to reiki practitioners claiming they can help. (The most outlandish claims are coming from the chiropractors!)

Fun fact: at least in the United States, chiropractors do not have medical degrees and so they are not licensed doctors.

Yet it is still somehow legal for them to market themselves as “Dr. $NAME”. It’s baffling.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#33

Post by henrikschroder » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #17

Maybe there is a way to use this concept of reducing stress with a gesture without invoking supernatural gibberish. I mean to me it seems totally plausible that having a person there that is trying to help you in and of itself can reduce stress. Also if they touch you, that seems like it could definitely reduce stress also. Or just the psychological effect of knowing that there are people who care, that seems like it…

> Maybe there is a way to use this concept of reducing stress with a gesture without invoking supernatural gibberish.

We know that fake acupuncture works just as well as real acupuncture, and we know that regular massage works pretty well to de-stress people, so it should absolutely be possible to remove the woo and still get the benefits.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#34

Post by sorokod » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #23

> The ailments that Reiki seems to treat most effectively are those that orthodox medicine struggles to manage: pain, anxiety, chronic disease, and the fear or discomfort of facing not only the suffering of illness but also the suffering of treatment. This is key. Modern medicine, with the way hospitals and health insurance are run, do not and cannot address, for economic reasons, a pretty important aspect, albeit su…

The homeopathic a&e:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#35

Post by hcarvalhoalves » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #17

Maybe there is a way to use this concept of reducing stress with a gesture without invoking supernatural gibberish. I mean to me it seems totally plausible that having a person there that is trying to help you in and of itself can reduce stress. Also if they touch you, that seems like it could definitely reduce stress also. Or just the psychological effect of knowing that there are people who care, that seems like it…

Modern medicine is also mumbo jumbo for the average patient, and still it's crucial that the patient have faith in it and cooperates - without it, they won't be disciplined to take their prescribed drugs, monitor exams, follow up consultations, and in the end the treatment won't be effective.

So I wouldn't downplay the importance of perception, and that depends on culture, traditions, individual values, etc.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#36

Post by jtolmar » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #17

Maybe there is a way to use this concept of reducing stress with a gesture without invoking supernatural gibberish. I mean to me it seems totally plausible that having a person there that is trying to help you in and of itself can reduce stress. Also if they touch you, that seems like it could definitely reduce stress also. Or just the psychological effect of knowing that there are people who care, that seems like it…

Every supernatural gibberish healing practice I've seen gets one thing right - their lobbies are consistently cozy, inviting places full of soft chairs and natural materials. A doctor's office is often a place with horrible lighting, no decoration, and plastic chairs.

There's a lot of stress and general unease that could be alleviated by getting someone to take time out of their day to go somewhere comfortable and explain their problems to a kind person. Unfortunately there's probably more stigma for that by itself - therapy - than there is for that plus a fanciful story.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#37

Post by zdragnar » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:21 AM UTC

mmhsieh wrote: post #26

Human touch does trigger positive neurochemical cascades. We might understand how all this works much better in the future, perhaps we big improvements in in vivo imaging of biological processes. Maybe some future version of CARS microscopy that does not fry the cell; better theory on multi-scale processes in human biology; and much better fMRI than what we have now.

I think "can" is better than "does trigger" here. I know I am not alone in genuinely disliking physical contact with anyone at all, including strangers, friends, parents, pretty much anyone other than my wife.

I put up with it for ease of social pleasantries, but otherwise am much more comfortable not touching than touching. Massages are at best pointless and at worst counterproductive for me.

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#38

Post by dang » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:21 AM UTC

uslic001 wrote: post #10

Magical thinking and placebo effect. I don't see any Reiki masters on the front line fighting COVID-19 because they know it has no real effect.

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#39

Post by lilSebastian » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:21 AM UTC

connectsnk wrote: post #31

Many people are commenting that Reiki is like Meditation i.e. all mumbo jumbo placebo effect. This might persuade a lot of people to reject both without going through the experience. I have been a very infrequent practitioner of meditation since 2009. I am now a very different person and there is no way for me to measure how or what has changed in me. I am way more focused, happier and might I conservatively add the…

Genuinely interested, how did you get started with meditation?

Re: Reiki can’t possibly work, so why does it?

#40

Post by crispinb » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 5:24 AM UTC

seer wrote: post #30

crispinb wrote: post #22

Almost more interesting than Reiki itself is the reflexive responses, bifurcating essentially into: 1. it's all mumbo jumbo 2. there's more in heaven and earth, my son Note that neither group is particularly interested in the empirical evidence, though group 1 will tend to take a louder cherry-picking feint at it. An empiricist mindset is really hard for humans to inhabit. We (scientistic hard-heads included) judge p…

Great comment and I apologize in advance for going off topic. We all have our mental models and it takes effort to re-evaluate and change them. And as the saying goes - there are no right models, only useful ones in some situations. Some are useful in more situations than others. Take “flat earth” model of the world. It’s not right, but it’s precise enough for the purposes of living in a village. Nothing wrong with t…

I don't think that's really off-topic & I agree. Another case in point: indigenous Australian cosmology. On the one hand, I don't personally take the notion that ancestors created the landscape very seriously. On the other, this cosmology was part of a system of thought, culture, and action that helped maintain a civilisation's existence for over 40,000 years (a feat we're very clearly not going to match).

And such questions naturally address an individual very differently according to their situation. I can't say I'm ever likely to be involved enough with Reiki to need to take a strong stance on its efficacy. So why not just remain open and admit ignorance? That admission seems as hard for humans as does holding an empirical stance. HN is (hardly uniquely) stuffed full of comments proclaiming great certainty about things it's blindingly obvious people hardly know a thing about.

It's fine often (and in truth most of the time) just not to know.