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Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

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Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#11

Post by James_Henry »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

Note that they're carefully dancing around the elephant in the room: As far as I know, no one has ever demonstrated that Lyme spirochetes survive a course of standard antibiotics (Emphasis mine): > Standard treatment of Lyme disease is oral antibiotics, typically doxycycline, in the early stages of the disease; but for reasons that are unclear, the antibiotics don't work for up to 20% of people with the tick-borne il…

>> A recent study in humans demonstrated that B. burgdorferi DNA was identified in PTDLS patient by xenodiagnosis but unable to culture viable spirochete17. In about 85% of Lyme arthritis patients, B. burgdorferi DNA was detected in synovial fluid by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing

The previous sentence is also important:

>Many research studies has [sic] shown that B. burgdorferi establishes persistent infections after antibiotic treatment in various animal models.

Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#12

Post by megous »

mrfusion wrote: post #10
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

Note that they're carefully dancing around the elephant in the room: As far as I know, no one has ever demonstrated that Lyme spirochetes survive a course of standard antibiotics (Emphasis mine): > Standard treatment of Lyme disease is oral antibiotics, typically doxycycline, in the early stages of the disease; but for reasons that are unclear, the antibiotics don't work for up to 20% of people with the tick-borne il…

Do PTLDS patients actually show active antibodies against lyme? That would be a good indication what’s going on.

"Antibodies normally persist in the blood for months or even years after the infection is gone; therefore, the test cannot be used to determine cure."

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/diagnosistesting/index.html

Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#13

Post by PragmaticPulp »

James_Henry wrote: post #11
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

Note that they're carefully dancing around the elephant in the room: As far as I know, no one has ever demonstrated that Lyme spirochetes survive a course of standard antibiotics (Emphasis mine): > Standard treatment of Lyme disease is oral antibiotics, typically doxycycline, in the early stages of the disease; but for reasons that are unclear, the antibiotics don't work for up to 20% of people with the tick-borne il…

>> A recent study in humans demonstrated that B. burgdorferi DNA was identified in PTDLS patient by xenodiagnosis but unable to culture viable spirochete17. In about 85% of Lyme arthritis patients, B. burgdorferi DNA was detected in synovial fluid by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing The previous sentence is also important: >Many research studies has [sic] shown that B. burgdorferi establishes persistent infect…

I'll review the citations in this study once again, but the evidence for lingering spirochetes in humans is always thin. Much of it relies on indirect testing that is difficult to replicate or prone to laboratory errors.

I'd love to be completely wrong and for this to be a game-changing solution, but after years of following this research I'm suspicious of the idea that persistent yet mysteriously undetectable (in humans) spirochetes are responsible for PTLSD symptoms.

Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#15

Post by James_Henry »

heelix wrote: post #6

As someone who is a very active camper (pre-zombie-apocalypses summers) a human vaccination would be wonderful. When our kid was bitten, she had the same textbook bulls eye pattern so it was easy to see a clue. They use to have one, but it was pulled off the market.

They're working on the new one: https://www.newsweek.com/lyme-disease-vaccine-valneva-fda-ap...

Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#17

Post by mrfusion »

megous wrote: post #12
mrfusion wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do PTLDS patients actually show active antibodies against lyme? That would be a good indication what’s going on.

"Antibodies normally persist in the blood for months or even years after the infection is gone; therefore, the test cannot be used to determine cure." https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/diagnosistesting/index.html

Sorry I meant IgM not IgG.

Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#18

Post by mc32 »

heelix wrote: post #6

As someone who is a very active camper (pre-zombie-apocalypses summers) a human vaccination would be wonderful. When our kid was bitten, she had the same textbook bulls eye pattern so it was easy to see a clue. They use to have one, but it was pulled off the market.

Yes definitely agree. With deer pop growth and climate change the ticks are found in most places now. It’d be nice to know that if bitten they’d be more of a nuisance than a threat to health.

Re: Lyme disease bacteria eradicated by new drug in early tests

#20

Post by Alex3917 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

Note that they're carefully dancing around the elephant in the room: As far as I know, no one has ever demonstrated that Lyme spirochetes survive a course of standard antibiotics (Emphasis mine): > Standard treatment of Lyme disease is oral antibiotics, typically doxycycline, in the early stages of the disease; but for reasons that are unclear, the antibiotics don't work for up to 20% of people with the tick-borne il…

> no one has ever demonstrated that Lyme spirochetes survive a course of standard antibiotics

This is true, but what I think most people don't realize is that the evidence that antibiotics kill the bacteria in the first place is also extremely dubious. If you read the main paper, it literally boils down to "people who take antibiotics are less likely to get a rash."[1]

[1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm200107123450201

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