Tailscale has reached general availability • Hacker News Board

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#101

Post by ta999999171 » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

armaxt wrote: post #81

dang wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's very much against HN's rules. Also against HN's rules is posting accusations about these things without evidence. I've looked extensively into these cases, mainly because you've drummed up such a fuss about them with your various accounts. I found zero evidence of abuse. All the data indicates that these threads have been upvoted by serious, longstanding HN community members are just genuinely interested…

There is no accusation, you're just playing with words to deflect the situation and make it on me instead on the real issue here which is about a company that had more frontpage posts of free positive publicity than most FAANG companies in the last month with a staggering 100% hit rate.

As someone who has spent years upon years fighting with and against corrupt subreddit mods+astroturfing users on reddit:

HN can't do much about upvotes coming from friends if they're sufficiently distributed/no patterns to find.

Also, please consider: their posts are just good/stimulate great discussion across multiple sectors of tech (networking meshing applies to ALMOST EVERYONE!).

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#102

Post by e12e » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

jedieaston wrote: post #50

I don't know if it's really ready without what they're calling "magic DNS": https://tailscale.com/kb/1054/dns Something that bugs me about ZeroTier is also present here, which is that there's no name management whatsoever, so I have to either keep a hosts file around with all the names of the network or find a script on GitHub that does it for me (or put a DNS server on the Tailscale network, and make sure all the ho…

Not saying you're wrong - and I'm just a (happy) hobby user of ZeroTier. But for my use case, mDNS/Bonjour works fine (ZeroTier "vouches" for sever/nodes - if you're able to broadcast your name, you're "inside" - and marginally trusted).

I suppose ms windows servers are still lagging on mDNS, though?

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#103

Post by cpr » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

dfcarney wrote: post #68

sho wrote: post #30

I've said this before - I really love the concept but I can't get past the pricing. I don't think I'm cheap, but I work in a startup and have to justify what I spend, and USD$10/user/month is very steep for the hard-to-explain benefit of doing away with jump servers. I already use Wireguard, I have a script to add users, update configs and bounce the servers.. it's not as cool and automatic and "zero trust" but it al…

(Tailscale co-founder here). I certainly appreciate the feedback and suggestions. We've had pricing inquiries from individuals all the way to enterprise. Finding the right set of features at the right price is something we're going to spend a lot of time exploring (for instance, some larger companies don't care too much about ACLs, but some smaller ones really, really do). Right now, all I can say for certain is that…

Yes, at $10/mo as the GP says, it's more than Slack or G-Suite or Microsoft 365(?).

It sounds like a great product, but it would definitely have less value to us than the above products.

That seems to set a price ceiling, but of course, you're free to find the price elasticity curve by exploration...

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#104

Post by dang » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

ta999999171 wrote: post #100

dang wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those spammers are ripping off their own customers. What actually happens when people use that service is that they get their sites and accounts banned. I can't claim this in all cases, because I don't have a list of all their customers, but we've done it dozens of times and we have much independent verification in the form of user confessions and mea culpas. (We're softies when it comes to forgiving people, by the w…

Two things: Please stick to this, new features aren't necessary! (You've heard this 10,000x before, but, reinforcing for posterity. ...could you un-shadowban me/whatever the state of my account is right now?

We banned you as I explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22602849.

Happy to unban you if you give us reason to believe that you'll use HN as intended in the future. It's best to email hn@ycombinator.com about that.

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#105

Post by e12e » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:32 PM UTC

Congratulations on launch! The solo tier looks very nice and useful (except for missing Android client for now). Low the sign-up flow, very easy.

This looks very similar to ZeroTier - apart from building on wireguard - how do the solutions differ? Is tailscale also a true mesh (ie packets go direct between two tailscale nodes on a lan)?

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#106

Post by nodesocket » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:34 PM UTC

In the dashboard, there is no link to support. There should also be a way to create a support ticket or even better live chat.

I am getting intermittent errors in the dashboard as well.

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#107

Post by ignoramous » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

apenwarr wrote: post #59

jedieaston wrote: post #50

I don't know if it's really ready without what they're calling "magic DNS": https://tailscale.com/kb/1054/dns Something that bugs me about ZeroTier is also present here, which is that there's no name management whatsoever, so I have to either keep a hosts file around with all the names of the network or find a script on GitHub that does it for me (or put a DNS server on the Tailscale network, and make sure all the ho…

(Tailscale co-founder) Everyone at tailscale agrees 100% with all your comments here. We're eager to someday have a chance to stop optimizing NAT traversal so that we can make magic DNS work. But we also know we have to get the core routing near-perfect before we start adding more features. I'm guessing ZeroTier feels the same.

> But we also know we have to get the core routing near-perfect

As someone who's been following tailscale's development, I'm curious to what you mean by core routing? Isn't routing P2P? Or, do you mean routing via DERP tunnels or TURN relays when P2P is a no-go? If so, what really are some key challenges here?

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#108

Post by enos_feedler » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

apenwarr wrote: post #25

mromanuk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can look at Sign In with Apple, it works native and for websites too. https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/

I really love the privacy- and security-centric design of Sign In with Apple, but so far it only works if you have Apple hardware, right? Tailscale's selling point is you can use it on all your devices (modulo Android support which isn't released yet).

FWIW I setup tailscale a few days ago with an iPad mini, iPhone, and Mac mini server. I don't know how many networks would be "Apple Only", but I would certainly prefer a quick Apple Sign in button vs. using Google.

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#109

Post by philsnow » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 11:20 PM UTC

apenwarr wrote: post #46

dstaley wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super excited to see that you'll be supporting GitHub! That being said, do you have plans to implement any sort of account merging? For example, the ability to login with one of multiple authorized accounts (so my Google Account, my Twitter account, or my GitHub account).

(Tailscale co-founder) This question goes through my mind a lot. I personally want it for myself. However there's a "weakest link" problem in identity management: if you have N identity managers merged together, then your account is only as secure as the weakest one of them. So connecting multiple identity providers to one account might be risky. On the other hand, I really like Keybase's way of federating multiple i…

There's more than just security concerns, when you allow a bunch of third-party accounts to access one of your first-party accounts.

If your highest concept of identity is the account and identity managers allow you to authenticate to that account, let's say you have a tailscale account with id 123, and any human who has access to john@personal.org or john.smith@job.com can access that account.

What do you do when John leaves job.com? Can John (accessing the account through john@personal.org) still admin the job.com bits?

I think the right abstraction is having first-party (in this case tailscale) accounts belonging to one or more "teams" and authenticating with a @job.com address allows you to switch to the job.com team in the UI / allows you to generate API creds that modify job.com's team.

Re: Tailscale has reached general availability

#110

Post by mattbee » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 11:22 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #69

mattbee wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alterations could HN make to the front page weighting algorithm that tries to spot and penalise voting rings? e.g. if you're someone who routinely upvotes posts within minutes, maybe your vote could count for less than an account that only dips in to the new page occasionally? Or maybe your vote gets penalised if it's your only upvote in a 24 hour period? Or maybe HN keeps track of who you upvote with , and your…

Voting ring detection has been one of HN's priorities for over 12 years: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... I've personally spent hundreds of hours working on this, as well as tracking down voting rings of every imaginable sort. I'd never claim that our software catches everything, but I can tell you that it catches so much t…

Thanks, I didn't know at all.

I can see you didn't want to talk about this, esp with the tedious conspiracists. But I'm glad you did, and appreciate your work in keeping HN interesting & fair.

It surprised me because 1) I achieved a moderate position on the front page a few years back "asking a few friends" to upvote something about my former company, but mainly 2) there's no warning to new post submitters as to the values, integrity etc. of the site, to warn people off trying to game it, which I'd expect when you'd put that much work in.

I know there's a minimalist / in-the-know aesthetic to HN but I've been here 10 years, started & sold a tech business, and still didn't know the rules, the moderation patterns etc, other than "by example" (but then who'd want a whole meta.hn forum, gulp).