'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#51

Post by saagarjha » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #45

saagarjha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I took your product and had it fail spectacularly in my movie?

Why should your product be protected from that? Consumers are smart enough to know that fictional media is fictional. If we're not protecting products from negative reviews, opinion peices, or satire -- then fictional stories seems to me like a really weird place to draw a line. What if I took your product and made a joke about it having ties to a cult?[0] I don't see any reason to treat fictional movies and games li…

> Consumers are smart enough to know that fictional media is fictional.

Well, it depends. Generally there is some sort of minimal realism when it comes to objects; you'll never have a sports car lose to a clunker, and when it does, the movie plays it as surprising. If people treat your product in a certain way, even in fiction, consumers might think that they're just missing out on the association they're supposed to know.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#52

Post by macintux » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

WaxProlix wrote: post #44

babypuncher wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet nobody bases their decision whether or not to buy a Glock based on its performance in Counter-Strike. It's a non-issue.

I grew up playing Counter-Strike and have in the past few years bought a few guns; despite their solid reputation and the fact that they do what I want, I never even considered a Glock. Was this causal? Who knows, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Given how effective advertising is, I think it's safer to assume that such a relationship does exist for some.

We're all subject to a wide variety of unconscious biases.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#53

Post by ummonk » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #22

smabie wrote: post #2

I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that many companies pursue legal action that is against their own interest. Surely, Humvees in CoD could only help the brand, no? Moreover, the fact that they don't even sell any consumer products in the first place makes the entire suit even more dubious. The use of Humvees in CoD is going to sow confusion among the military purchasing officers and the…

What if Humvees become the worst vehicles in the game because of balancing reasons? If I were the owner of the brand I'd be pissed. Even worse in case of other vehicles like racing cars. Imagine a racing game in which Porsche cars are slowest and break more often than other cars. You wouldn't want your brand to be associated with that, even if it's a videogame. Or imagine a completely broken game with popular car. Bi…

Yes, though simulation games (which CoD isn't really) are rather akin to consumer reviews - the problem here isn't that they're depicting the car, the problem is that they're depicting it unfairly. It's like a bad review.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#54

Post by boring_twenties » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #45

saagarjha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I took your product and had it fail spectacularly in my movie?

Why should your product be protected from that? Consumers are smart enough to know that fictional media is fictional. If we're not protecting products from negative reviews, opinion peices, or satire -- then fictional stories seems to me like a really weird place to draw a line. What if I took your product and made a joke about it having ties to a cult?[0] I don't see any reason to treat fictional movies and games li…

> Consumers are smart enough

Counterpoint: the cratering sales of Corona beer in the past month

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#55

Post by boring_twenties » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #21

filoleg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting you bring up a point about Jeep. Never once in the US I've heard of a non-Jeep-made SUV referred to as a "Jeep". But back when I lived in Russia, every single SUV was referred to as a "Jeep". I don't even know of another word for SUV in Russian. Not trying to argue against you btw, I just personally find stuff like this interesting. EDIT: just checked the wikipedia page for SUV in russian, and yep, in the…

Another word is внедорожник, or off-roader: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE... The legend has it that when economic restrictions were relaxed towards the end of the SU someone bartered a huge quantity of a natural resource (coal?) for a huge number Jeep Grand Cherokee vehicles. So around that time they were only types of cars in SU - subpar Soviet cars and fancy American Jeeps.

No idea if it's at all common, but my favorite that I've heard is вездеход.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#56

Post by ummonk » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #16

CM30 wrote: post #15

Have to be honest, I've always thought complaints about trademarked products in works of fiction were a silly thing to begin with. Why shouldn't a fictional universe feature products and businesses found in the real world? Are we supposedly to randomly assume all other universes don't have humvees or macbooks or the Red Cross? Who's to say the same people/companies/organisations would even be responsible in that work…

What if I took your product and had it fail spectacularly in my movie?

What if I wrote a bad review of your product and claimed it fails spectacularly? E.g. what Top Gear did with the Tesla Roadster.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#57

Post by macintux » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #25

norifukuoka wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, in this other fictional universe, a guy who looks just like you and posts the same things as you on HN is a child pornographer. Not to worry, our hero stops him. Or perhaps it is your company that is involved in the pornography. And they are secret Nazis. Not to worry. All fictional.

Well that's what Freedom of Speech is all about, isn't it?

No, slander and libel are well-established legal principles despite freedom of speech.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#58

Post by gambiting » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

filoleg wrote: post #13

djsumdog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, so this serve the companies interest because they're trying to defend their trademark; even if they failed. I doubt Humvee is in danger of becoming a generic term (Jeep is more likely; I cannot tell you much my it annoyed me my ex called her Suzuki 4x4 a "Jeep" .. it's not a Jeep! It's a 4x4 or off-roader.." but if they enter into other trademark battles, the opposing council can't say "Well they haven't tried t…

Interesting you bring up a point about Jeep. Never once in the US I've heard of a non-Jeep-made SUV referred to as a "Jeep". But back when I lived in Russia, every single SUV was referred to as a "Jeep". I don't even know of another word for SUV in Russian. Not trying to argue against you btw, I just personally find stuff like this interesting. EDIT: just checked the wikipedia page for SUV in russian, and yep, in the…

Same in Poland - every slightly offroad-looking vehicle is a jeep. When my dad got himself a Land Rover Discovery it was a jeep to everyone who asked.

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#59

Post by kube-system » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #45

saagarjha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I took your product and had it fail spectacularly in my movie?

Why should your product be protected from that? Consumers are smart enough to know that fictional media is fictional. If we're not protecting products from negative reviews, opinion peices, or satire -- then fictional stories seems to me like a really weird place to draw a line. What if I took your product and made a joke about it having ties to a cult?[0] I don't see any reason to treat fictional movies and games li…

Being smart enough to know something is fake is not enough to be psychologically unaffected by it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement#Research

Re: 'Call of Duty' wins First Amendment victory over use of Humvees

#60

Post by filoleg » Thu, Apr 02, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

boring_twenties wrote: post #55

DenisM wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another word is внедорожник, or off-roader: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE... The legend has it that when economic restrictions were relaxed towards the end of the SU someone bartered a huge quantity of a natural resource (coal?) for a huge number Jeep Grand Cherokee vehicles. So around that time they were only types of cars in SU - subpar Soviet cars and fancy American Jeeps.

No idea if it's at all common, but my favorite that I've heard is вездеход.

I like that word too, but it is usually only used to refer to ATV vehicles (specifically amphibious ones), not offroad cars or SUVs.