61–70 of 199 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's their justification for using it. It makes sense to me. https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0518/#overview-of-file-f...
It makes sense to use toml. It makes zero sense not to bring pytoml in the stdlib before doing so. The way this was handled is a little absurd.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of that is "necessary". Rust doesn't have a BDFL and they've gotten along fine. But I agree that the current situation is a mess. The "official" solutions are suboptimal and none of the unofficial solutions, which are pretty good, have enough clout to meaningfully simplify the ecosystem (held hostage by the majority of users with just pip). So the ecosystem is kind of frozen in place. PyPA doesn't seem to have t…
It's all about capacity, not will. The PyPA as a whole knows what is lacking, but when you're all just a bunch of volunteers it's hard to tackle massive projects that take potentially years to complete and then even longer to see gain traction in the community when you are doing it all in your spare time. And that's if you don't burn out before you finish (e.g. calling projects "garbage" is not motivating to the few…
Is toml even supported in the standard library? This seems just bizarre. Python's really overtaking node for massive churn. I feel like an old guy when peers say, "don't use virtual environment use pipenv." then someone says no no don't even use that, use poetry. Etc. I think about 50% of why I enjoy, in my soul, about Rust when I'm hacking away and personal goofs is that the dependency and project management system…
Here's their justification for using it. It makes sense to me. https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0518/#overview-of-file-f...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This looks great. Can anyone who's used both comment on how poetry compares to yarn[0]? [0] https://yarnpkg.com/
I think of Poetry as the Yarn of Python packaging for two main reasons (apart from package locking, which is the biggest similarity): the commands are more intuitive and the lockfile starts with a different letter from the dependency file. I don't know how many times I open package-lock.json instead of package.json because I tab-complete from my shell. Same with Pipfile and Pipfile.lock for anyone using Pipenv. I wro…
Python desperately needs a better packaging solution than pip from Python Software Foundation. Stop all new features until this - the biggest pain point for Python across all expertise levels from newbies to experienced Python programmers - is officially solved. No pipenv, no poetry, no conda, etc from third party devs who sometimes get tired of the pressure [1]. It is immense. Combine all this virtualenv stuff with…
I am an experienced Python programmer. I often have to collaborate with people who are not. There is no greater hell than talking them through installing a working Python environment. It’s impossible. Meanwhile, the pip project is full of developers who tell you that your problem is not a problem and you’re discouraging people by pointing out that they’re blame shifting: https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/4995 I hone…
Python desperately needs a better packaging solution than pip from Python Software Foundation. Stop all new features until this - the biggest pain point for Python across all expertise levels from newbies to experienced Python programmers - is officially solved. No pipenv, no poetry, no conda, etc from third party devs who sometimes get tired of the pressure [1]. It is immense. Combine all this virtualenv stuff with…
Do note that Python the language is developed by a separate group as Python the packaging ecosystem. So even when Guido was a BDFL he completely stayed out of the packaging situation. And there is a packaging BDFL, but there's a severe lack of time and effort in the form of volunteers to tackle a lot of the projects, big or small. Plus rolling these things out takes years and it takes even longer to gain traction as…
Compared to other languages, python has a pretty rich set of modular tools in the standard library.
I don’t want to be too negative, and I realize this isn’t an option for everyone ... but seriously, just use conda if you can. Judging from comments here and in the past, we all know packaging is one of Python’s Achilles’ heels. I spent a couple years bouncing around with pyenv/pipenv, then poetry, then back. I lovingly followed all the flamewars here and on github. Ultimately, I realize now, I laboured under the con…
I've had the opposite experience. I used conda for several years, primarily for data science, but regularly ran into problems with packages not working, updates for packages bring severely delayed, and issues with conda itself. Switched to pyenv+virtualenv 18 months ago and haven't had a single issue. I believe both of our stories. I just always wonder how this happens that two people have such opposite experiences.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I teach Python to some middle school kids. Pip vs Pip3 and PYTHONPATH wasted entirety of two class sessions. By the way, Python should go beyond Go. It should single binary the someone can install without root privileges. The fact that I have hundreds of Chromebooks at my school and I can’t use any of them - school IT, correctly, doesn’t want me mucking with advanced settings.
People would love to see that happen, but it requires time and effort from people to build such a solution. Some people are trying, e.g. https://pyoxidizer.readthedocs.io/ and https://briefcase.readthedocs.io/ as well as stalwarts like PyInstaller and such. But as I said, it takes time and effort and there's only so much of that when it's being done by volunteers in their evenings and weekends. And as an aside, I wou…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Poetry is a modern packaging system for Python. It's really good. I hope everyone converges on it. http://python-poetry.org/
Poetry is...a little quirky. I've seen it go into infinite loops trying to resolve projects with, like, 10 dependencies. I'm not really sold on it being better than just making a virtualenv and pip installing.