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A cold outreach strategy that works

patrickrivera.co

111–120 of 135 posts

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#111
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do they generate business then, if not cold outreach? There are tons of ways to get warm interest, whether that's permission to email, a conversation with a salesperson, or a request for more info. Some obvious examples are content marketing (with a way to provide your email for a mailing list and/or account), trial downloads, product tours/webinar registrations, trade show booths, and user group sponsorships.…

With the exception of trade shows, I call that 'marketing' though, that's an entirely different department. Everything else you've mentioned does not fall into the sales/BD category. Which is fine, I know some companies do not have or need a sales staff at all- I'm just commenting on the ones that do. If they have sales or business development in their job titles, they are probably reaching out to strangers a decent…

> I call that 'marketing' though

That's fair, but marketing's main job is to find prospective customers. In a successful organization, marketing and sales scale roughly in lockstep, so marketing is generating enough warm leads for sales.

One can debate how warm/qualified they need to be - and sales and marketing teams do - but the answer isn't "They've expressed no interest at all and might not have ever heard of us."

Your comment applies to cold emails to strangers, too: that's marketing, not sales. It's ineffective, often expensive marketing because it's performed by people with the wrong skill set and goals. Generalizing, a company doing that has over-invested in sales and under-invested in marketing.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you think the utility derived from cold outreach spam is even LOWER than I ballparked? :)

To the contrary, proper cold outreach can result in qualified opportunities for 2-10% of prospects contacted.

Seems a bit like moving the goalposts. I'm saying that in the aggregate, cold outreach is annoying and unsuccessful 99.9% of the time. You're saying that's wrong because proper cold outreach "can" result in qualified opportunities (not even sales!) for 10% of prospects contacted.

In any event, your best case seems to be that 90% of people are at best unmotivated enough to ignore the message, and in all likelihood would rather it hadn't come in the first place.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#113
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't see it as a gotcha! Love the curiosity :) I can only speak for the businesses I have been involved in (software, product marketing for software, marcomms, real estate), but cold outreach -- if done at all -- would be the longest of long tails: low conversion, increasingly high maintenance (esp. because folks like me send petulant ICO/GDPR subject access requests to clog up organisations sending unsolicited ema…

>then you're giving us implicit permission to talk to you Certainly. Although I'm guessing that at least some of the people on this thread most objecting to cold outreach would still classify something like an email after getting a badge scan at a trade show as spam. You're right that lead acquisition happens in a lot of ways other than the spam I get in my inbox offering to sell me address lists. However, a lot of p…

> an email after getting a badge scan as spam

And IMO they are totally right to do so. That behaviour is so ludicrously dumb that I can't believe people do it. Your company is exhibiting in a room full of potential customers. If someone doesn't come and talk to you then you have no right to reach out to them IMO.

> a lot of people still get mad at emails that are the result of casual interactions

Hey, if I gave someone my email address that's fine. I expect them to contact me. If I gave a conference organiser my email address, I do not expect the exhibitors to be able to contact me.

> And then some company would figure out…

For sure. But OP's point seemed to be that money stops being spent in a world without sales people. It's an interesting thought experiment. My hunch is that the same money is spent: sales people are not, in general, getting more spend out of customers overall. Salesman X might get Customer Y to spend more money with _their particular company_, but not money that would not have been deployed in the market anyway.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never ever in a million years trust that people with a need would seek me out. Most people are lazy and they don't pay my bills. Not sure I agree/understand the idea that cold outreach is manipulation.

Sure. I believe you don't understand. As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." If it made sense to you, you'd be doing something else.

Your patronization and condescension are not lost on me. Without knowing anything about me, my work, and my company aside from what I've shared you've taken the time to behave like an utter jackass because you dont happen to like what you think I do for a living.

Know this: I love my job and the company I've built. My employees love working here and the problems we solve. The clients love the service we provide and their customers love that we helped them connect.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#115
post #104

> But in sales and recruiting, “no” doesn’t always mean “no”. Where I should start? I dived too deep into dating - partly because I was in the process of writing "Dating for Nerds", and partly because my ex-girlfriend was a sexologist/sociologist (who at that time was writing her master's thesis "Market Metaphors in Dating"). There are many sales metaphors for dating, especially in PUA lingo (including all about the…

[deleted]

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I believe you don't understand. As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." If it made sense to you, you'd be doing something else.

Your patronization and condescension are not lost on me. Without knowing anything about me, my work, and my company aside from what I've shared you've taken the time to behave like an utter jackass because you dont happen to like what you think I do for a living. Know this: I love my job and the company I've built. My employees love working here and the problems we solve. The clients love the service we provide and t…

If I were behaving like an utter jackass, you would certainly know it.

If you can't deal with somebody talking honestly about what you're publicly admitting to doing, I can't help you with that. Spam's spam. You contempt for the people you spam is blatant. And you're quite clear about your motivation, which is pecuniary.

You're only upset because you're not honest with yourself about it, like the people who eat meat but get upset when people are frank that it comes from killing perfectly nice animals. Half my family has done sales, so I'm familiar with it, and I totally accept the necessity of it for many modern businesses, including ones I've worked at. But that doesn't mean I can't see that the goal is to manipulate people into making decisions they wouldn't make on their own.

P.S. Don't assume nobody knows anything about you or your company when you have your company email address in your bio.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#117
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there is a difference between sales spam and scam spam. This is why we provide the former with a warning before being blocked, while the latter gets no such courtesy. (We don't engage in legal threats over it, that's pointless and stupid.)

Honest question b/c I'm curious: does this mean that as a policy you won't engage with cold outreach regardless of what is being offered? And if so, do you ever consider that such a policy may indeed hinder your business? A non-zero portion of unsolicited sales-based emails DO include something of meaningful value.

I'm not connected to anyone else commenting here, just chiming in with another data point for you.

does this mean that as a policy you won't engage with cold outreach regardless of what is being offered?

How will we know what is being offered if we don't read the message or accept the call? Unless we've had prior contact with someone or they make contact through a trusted third party, we normally won't, we'll just block and move on.

And if so, do you ever consider that such a policy may indeed hinder your business?

No, not at all. We're quite happy doing our thing, and when we identify something that seems like we could do it better, we're quite happy going out and actively looking for ways we could improve it. If someone wants our business, by far the best way to win it is simply to have a good, no-nonsense website so we can find them if we're looking.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#118

I'm seeing some negative comments that focus on the article specifics. So I thought I'd say well done Patrick for reaching your goal using creativity and the right kind of persistence. Thank you for showing the actual steps you took and sharing your thought process. I've been in software almost 20 years and due to some incredibly poor timing am in need of finding my own door of opportunity, so I found your post inspi…

Bring back guesting on the record. Should start from the top.

Life is fun. People are naturally happy. If it's not right or fun, don't do it.

Re: A cold outreach strategy that works

#119
Good negotiating is a fact-finding mission. "No" is data that tells you something. "No, not this thing" is not the same as "Drop dead!"

The email response he got wasn't even as ugly he framed it in this piece. They were clearly interested and telling him when he could potentially connect with them.

Countering that with more information about his side of the equation -- that he was willing to take any role they had and his target date was the fall -- turned up more information and helped them reach agreement.

Generally speaking, it's fine to treat no as specific to X and not interpret it as a blanket rejection. And most CEOs will not be coy about letting you know that their "no" means "Sorry, you are just not a good fit for our company." They usually didn't get to be CEO by being a milquetoast.

That's not really comparable to trying to sort out how aggressively you should pursue some woman that you're probably taller than, stronger than and so forth. These are just not good points of comparison.

I'm annoyed by the "no means maybe" thing. He tries to cover himself by saying that "in dating, no always means no." But I wish he just hadn't gone there.

Too many people are already disrespectful pricks. They don't need any openings to help them justify their lousy behavior.

Anyway, congrats and thanks for the write up. It's good info, even though I think it unnecessarily steps in it on that one detail.

/2¢

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