Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 137 posts

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#121

Post by thatcat »

bluGill wrote: post #117
thatcat wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, the price of corn, or even oil, coal, and steel are constantly adjusted by gov policies. You've proven the opposite of your point - market price is political and can be controlled when it is politically favorable.

There is political intervention, but even that works in context of the market and so can only go so far.

You could just as easily say it's the market that works in the context of politics, the market can only go so far, due to policy limits. I.e you can't build a nuclear reactor without approval so policy can durectly control market competition.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#122

Post by missedthecue »

thatcat wrote: post #84
missedthecue wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like "fair pay" and "living wage" are political talking points. In short, what the living wage is really about is not living standards, or economics, but morality. Its advocates refuse to come to terms with the fact that wages are market price–determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of oil, steel, corn, or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader polit…

Lol, the price of corn, or even oil, coal, and steel are constantly adjusted by gov policies. You've proven the opposite of your point - market price is political and can be controlled when it is politically favorable.

You've missed the point of my comment. I never said that the government can't manipulate markets through price floors, ceilings, or subsidies.

I said the market system is amoral. We can't will it to do what we want. You can't force a job to suddenly create $20/hr of economic value by placing a mandatory $20/hr price on it. Basic mathematics doesn't allow that.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#123

Post by groby_b »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72
groby_b wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fair pay" -> well, let's start with "treated like human beings, not chattel", "afforded basic hygiene & health measures", "kept safe in a crisis". From there, we get to "would you die without them? If yes, maybe they're underpaid. Maybe $18K a year just isn't fair pay under any circumstances, not if we can't force people via a "well, you could always die" clause. As for the value they create - you have food availabl…

If I were a business owner trying to figure out how much to pay, I would not be able to deduce the numerical figure from your comment. I understand what you're saying, my intention is to display how easy it is to say, but how difficult it is to execute. Currently, we pay people what it costs to replace them, but it would be nice if we could snap our fingers and give everyone a global standard of living equal to whate…

"If I were a business owner trying to figure out how much to pay, I would not be able to deduce the numerical figure from your comment."

That's OK, I'm happy to help you with regulation.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#124

Post by earthshot »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #100
earthshot wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case fatality rate changes quite dramatically when hospitals are overloaded. Additionally, the fatality rate of _other_ causes increases when hospitals are overloaded. Flatting the curve saves lives even if the total number of infected people remains the same.

The issue I see now is that some areas are locking down when there is no curve to be flattened. This is likely causing more harm than not, because hospitals are sitting empty waiting for when people will inevitably get sick.

There's a national (and international) shortage of nearly all covid-adjacent medical supplies and you think it's a problem that we're not using more of those medical supplies right this very moment?

You... you're calling that _harmful_?

Cool.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#125

Post by bluGill »

thatcat wrote: post #121
bluGill wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is political intervention, but even that works in context of the market and so can only go so far.

You could just as easily say it's the market that works in the context of politics, the market can only go so far, due to policy limits. I.e you can't build a nuclear reactor without approval so policy can durectly control market competition.

You could, but you would be wrong as the market is universal. You can manipulate it, but ultimately it limits what you can do.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#126

Post by thatcat »

bluGill wrote: post #125
thatcat wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just as easily say it's the market that works in the context of politics, the market can only go so far, due to policy limits. I.e you can't build a nuclear reactor without approval so policy can durectly control market competition.

You could, but you would be wrong as the market is universal. You can manipulate it, but ultimately it limits what you can do.

the market is a social construct just like politics, there is nothing universal about it

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#127

Post by thatcat »

missedthecue wrote: post #122
thatcat wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, the price of corn, or even oil, coal, and steel are constantly adjusted by gov policies. You've proven the opposite of your point - market price is political and can be controlled when it is politically favorable.

You've missed the point of my comment. I never said that the government can't manipulate markets through price floors, ceilings, or subsidies. I said the market system is amoral . We can't will it to do what we want. You can't force a job to suddenly create $20/hr of economic value by placing a mandatory $20/hr price on it. Basic mathematics doesn't allow that.

The market and it's values are a manifestation of the people participating in the market and therefore the any morality or values a market has would simply be a reflection of the values and morality of those people.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#128

Post by jelliclesfarm »

wscott wrote: post #39

Sorry, I am going to be the insensitive sleazeball here. The point of staying at home is not that if you get this disease you are going to die. The issue is that if we ALL get it then a larger proportion of people are going to die because we don't have enough hospitals. We had to choose some people as being important enough that they are allowed to be out and about and use some of that valuable limited healthcare res…

Farm workers live in the most polluted regions. They are the most vulnerable. Usually without insurance even if legal.

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2018/12/californias-...

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#129

Post by jelliclesfarm »

I have been farming for 8 years and asking for Meaningful Ag automation for 5. Applied twice to YC.

Simply put there is no $$ to replace manual labour. All Agtech is a sham. They are pimps for data collected from farms and fields that get fed to Wall Street and input and pesticide and tractor companies that use it to sell more stuff to farmers.

It doesn’t save farmers money. It doesn’t bring them meaningful Agtech or being Agbots and Farmbot to replace farm labour. The only agtech worth investing is Agtech that harvests data. That’s why probably all the Agtech and Agbot startups have investments from Ag input companies. It’s a dirty little secret that anyone can find out with a little bit of digging around...

Agtech has betrayed Ag.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#130

Post by jelliclesfarm »

Look at those photos. Those citrus trees are canopied trees. You can let an Agbot roam in that orchard. It won’t even pick up signals. There is no systems approach. If you can’t harvest data, no Agbots. I understand the importance of data with tech. But if the end result is data, then it is the product. It doesn’t enable Ag.
Post reply on HN