Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#101

Post by tluyben2 » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

delfinom wrote: post #79

munk-a wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to choose who gets sick first - do remember that in the US a farm worker getting sick might bankrupt them and kill them not because a hospital bed isn't available - but because they can't afford it or end up having a heart attack after dealing with the stress of those costs. Additionally Covid-19 isn't super fatal, but it isn't just a get sick and whatever disease. Folks with health problems absolutely can d…

>Who gets to choose who gets sick first - do remember that in the US a farm worker getting sick might bankrupt them and kill them not because a hospital bed isn't available - but because they can't afford it or end up having a heart attack after dealing with the stress of those costs. But this is literally a every day risk and problem with or without covid-19 as there is a whole host of diseases they could catch any…

The parent comment was about the healthcare system right? As a lot of that wouldn’t happen in a lot of countries so I assumed it was.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#102

Post by londons_explore » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

agjmills wrote: post #14

londons_explore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strawberry pickers typically work very close to one another with hundreds in the same area of a field at once, with lots of trucks as central points to put the fruit, etc. Workers also typically live on caravans near/on the fields in very cramped quarters to save commute time/cost. That could easily be changed to a more distributed method with per-worker wheelbarrows or backpacks, but presumably that would decrease t…

Personally, and I'd hope this is echoed by everyone: I'd rather have less strawberries, that are more expensive, than have strawberries picked by someone who died as a result of contracting COVID-19 in a field whilst they were picking strawberries to earn money to feed themselves/their family.

And are you going to buy a different brand of laptop because the steel that made the springs in the power connector was recycled in a grimy workshop in Ukraine by a 6 year old child?

It turns out policing entire supply chains by consumers isn't viable. Either enforce regulations, or do nothing. The middle ground of trying to shame companies into doing 'good' things just leaves uneven playing fields for companies without a public face to shame.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#103

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

forgotmyhnacc wrote: post #7

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to do with the title - strawberries aren't the risk. Hopefully masks are there when travelling? And an isolated cohort in a bunkhouse has some benefits. Of course it only takes one.

Consider reading the article instead of making a snap judgement based on the title.

Consider a title that's meaningful. Anyway nitpicking aside, folks all over are still going to work. So you can 'shelter in place' and get your Amazon delivery or groceries delivered or whatever. If they're young and confident, or really need the money, bless them.

As for the useful part of my comment, have you used a drive-thru? Did you see the close quarters and unmasked/ungloved employees there? Meeting a customer a minute for 8 hours?

Picking produce at least puts you in an enormous field away from crowded city conditions with a small cohort of people. Its risky, but likely no riskier than 100 other jobs.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#104

Post by fock » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

joejerryronnie wrote: post #20

agjmills wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, and I'd hope this is echoed by everyone: I'd rather have less strawberries, that are more expensive, than have strawberries picked by someone who died as a result of contracting COVID-19 in a field whilst they were picking strawberries to earn money to feed themselves/their family.

Everybody says this, and then proceeds to buy the cheapest, most convenient products possible.

yeah, because there's no way to tell about labour conditions in the supermarket... (where most of us unfortunately have to shop) I would really like to have shop to tell production cost/per unit like they have to do with price/unit in the EU. Not gonna happen with "Big"-Ag writing paychecks to the MPs though...

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#105

Post by Mikeb85 » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #73

Mikeb85 wrote: post #58

You can't pick strawberries over zoom, but it's pretty easy to distance yourself from others on a farm. And let's face it, if you have the physical fortitude for farm work, you aren't at risk from coronavirus.

> you aren't at risk from coronavirus We don't have sufficient information to determine this definitively - some of the folks that have "recovered" have had serious respiratory complications. Also, just because the farm worker is alright is their mother fine too? What about the rest of their family? Are they going to be treated in a wonderful modern hospital or is a doctor going to send them home to be cared for by t…

There's nearly a million cases worldwide. There's enough data. The death rate between 19 and 39 years of age is 0.2%. The death rate from 40-49% is 0.4%.

And that's the death rate only taking into account confirmed cases (by contrast, seasonal flu death rates are used by estimating total infections). I know in Canada lots of people with all the symptoms aren't getting tested. Also, the more testing is done in various countries, the lower the death rate.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-se...

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#106

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

kitotik wrote: post #12

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

You don't catch anything from a strawberry. This job is fundamentally no different from others, and way safer than for instance fast-food-window worker.

This is one of the more dismissive and ignorant comments I’ve ever seen in HN. Do you have some subject matter expertise or was this just intuition?

Social distancing is important in all sorts of jobs. What about this one makes that impossible? Looked in the window at your local McD's lately? Is it any different?

(If that comment was some sort of outlier, must not be reading much on HN.)

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#107

Post by Mikeb85 » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

creaghpatr wrote: post #61

Mikeb85 wrote: post #58

You can't pick strawberries over zoom, but it's pretty easy to distance yourself from others on a farm. And let's face it, if you have the physical fortitude for farm work, you aren't at risk from coronavirus.

*you aren't risk for dying of coronavirus, but still at risk for spreading it.

No my statement stands. If you spread it, by definition others are at risk, not you. You can't just make up new language semantics.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#108

Post by solotronics » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

agjmills wrote: post #14

londons_explore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strawberry pickers typically work very close to one another with hundreds in the same area of a field at once, with lots of trucks as central points to put the fruit, etc. Workers also typically live on caravans near/on the fields in very cramped quarters to save commute time/cost. That could easily be changed to a more distributed method with per-worker wheelbarrows or backpacks, but presumably that would decrease t…

Personally, and I'd hope this is echoed by everyone: I'd rather have less strawberries, that are more expensive, than have strawberries picked by someone who died as a result of contracting COVID-19 in a field whilst they were picking strawberries to earn money to feed themselves/their family.

Unpopular opinion: the fruit pickers need money also. I don't think eliminating these jobs shifts demand for these folks somewhere else, in fact they probably can't find other work at this time.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#109

Post by anoonmoose » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #48

anoonmoose wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "increase the cost of labor" like it's nothing. Fact is, industries like this couldn't be operated on the up and up in the US- people wouldn't buy the product at the price it'd need to be sold for. I'm not saying this to justify the current conditions, I'm just pointing out that it's this or an eradication of the industry. edit: an eradication I'm totally fine with.

If the industry can't survive by following the rules then the leaders of that industry who profited from illicit behaviors should go to prison for decades and their assets should be sold off to pay damages to the effected. The industry can correct itself or die off. If no one wants a product at a humane price then the industry should go extinct in a functioning society.

Fine by me.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#110

Post by anoonmoose » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #56

anoonmoose wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "increase the cost of labor" like it's nothing. Fact is, industries like this couldn't be operated on the up and up in the US- people wouldn't buy the product at the price it'd need to be sold for. I'm not saying this to justify the current conditions, I'm just pointing out that it's this or an eradication of the industry. edit: an eradication I'm totally fine with.

Then people shouldn't buy the produce. There's no universal law saying you're entitled to your strawberries. If this approach is unsustainable (and it would be), then there are a lot of other things that need to change. What doesn't need to happen is us shrugging our shoulders, saying "meh, farmworkers need to suffer, it's too expensive otherwise"

As said elsewhere- fine by me.