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Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

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11–20 of 110 posts

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#11

This is probably illegal retaliation. Organizing with coworkers about workplace conditions is a protected activity.

You're probably right that this is technically illegal, but talking to the media is a different action than organizing with coworkers...

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#12
There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi...

How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#14

This is a self-solving problem for the doctors speaking out. If the hospital would rather fire them than ensure their safety, then getting fired can save these doctors' lives.

It might be hard for them to get jobs after, though. I'm not in healthcare, and I know that doctors are always in high demand, but we can't ignore the cost to those protesting by risking their careers. So many whistleblowers face intense retaliation and career problems after coming forward, and I'm sure being perceived as a snitch wouldn't do one any favors down the road, even if you're a doctor.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#15
post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

Doctors and nurses get to choose the hospitals they work for/with.

Unfortunately, new entrants to the hospital market are prevented by large state-sponsored moats, and most of the large incumbents are shady in similar ways, so the ability of the staff to choose employer based on ethics/practices is basically meaningless. More options for medical care and medical employment is the answer; the vast majority of people in society are not greedy/shady.

Fix one, and you fix the other. You might also bring prices down, too. (Caveat: it's not "swift", as you requested.)

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#16
Anonymous new profile, my apologies. My partner wasn't comfortable with me saying this stuff in a public way. They work in the emergency department of a hospital in North America.

It's not just that they'll be fired if they speak out...

The hospitals are also threatening to withhold worker's compensation payouts if a staff member is caught using anything brought from home, even if it's real, name brand equipment. Got some N95s leftover from that home improvement project? Leave them at home and use this surgical mask instead (still better than nothing, to be fair). They are asking staff members to inform on other staff. To be clear: these policies were in effect for an area with coughing COVID patients. They do put surgical masks on the patients, which is very helpful, but I'm livid that they then ask the nurses to NOT use N95s in this scenario.

They are also undertaking dubious re-use and cleaning procedures that are not scientifically proven. For example, masks (both surgical and N95s, which are only for workers doing things like intubation) are being used for an entire day (also not correct usage) and then placed in paper folders for a week. At the end of the week, the masks are deemed 'clean' and reused by the same staff member. Kind of like a mask for each day of the week. There is not strong scientific evidence this is an effective or safe procedure. These procedures might work, but there isn't testing proving that fact.

I understand hospitals are in a bind here. There are simply not enough masks available (both surgical and N95) in the world. If the hospitals admit their ad-hoc procedures are ineffective they risk short term mutiny in their staff ranks. They also risk long term litigation by admitting they can't protect staff. Unfortunately their approach of 'clamp down hard on dissent' is preventing the real message from being broadcast loudly enough: It should be blindingly clear we need a crash program to ramp domestic PPE manufacturing by an order of magnitude (or two).

As an aside, please call your senators and representatives and ask them to force the Trump administration to use the DPA to bring more PPE capacity online. It's really too late now, but better late than never. We'll need to establish permanent manufacturing capacity for this anyways so we never get caught out like again.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#17
post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

I don't see a solution that puts a swift end to this. The power asymmetry between employers and workers is so vast that situations like these are inevitable.

We can't continue to live in this fantasy where companies have so much power over workers and their futures. But changing this involves organizing labor, which is deeply stigmatized in the US.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#18
post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

> How do we put a swift end to this nonsense?

When every healthcare worker starts defying these types of rules. What are they going to do? Fire all of them?

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#19
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you kindly wait a few months first? Pragmatism before virtue.

We already shut down our entire civilization so that the healthcare status quo could be maintained and bills can keep getting sent to the correct address. How on earth is that pragmatic? We could open up massive free clinics in every city tomorrow morning. Nothing is stopping us.

>We already shut down our entire civilization so that the healthcare status quo could be maintained and bills can keep getting sent to the correct address.

What a garbage interpretation of what is going on. Jesus Christ, I'm jaded and cynical, but that's just too much.

Saying that we don't want to overwhelm our medical capacity because of the billing, versus the actual reason of human deaths. Too much. That's just too much.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#20
post #18
post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

> How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? When every healthcare worker starts defying these types of rules. What are they going to do? Fire all of them?

I received emergency alert messages on all of my cellphones all night last night begging for healthcare workers to register at a state website to help. Whom the power lies with is clear.
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