61–70 of 137 posts
You can't pick strawberries over zoom, but it's pretty easy to distance yourself from others on a farm. And let's face it, if you have the physical fortitude for farm work, you aren't at risk from coronavirus.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But some people are going to have to be exposed. Farmworker's exposure helps us flatten the curve.
That... I'm sorry, but that's just an utterly uninformed take. Nobody "has" to be exposed, protective gear would work just fine. And no, exposing farmworkers doesn't help to flatten the curve. The curve would be equally flat if they weren't exposed. What you just said is "Somebody has to die, let's kill the farmworkers so we're safe". You might want to rethink. What we need to do is stop exploiting them. They're not…
You can't pick strawberries over zoom, but it's pretty easy to distance yourself from others on a farm. And let's face it, if you have the physical fortitude for farm work, you aren't at risk from coronavirus.
Sorry, I am going to be the insensitive sleazeball here. The point of staying at home is not that if you get this disease you are going to die. The issue is that if we ALL get it then a larger proportion of people are going to die because we don't have enough hospitals. We had to choose some people as being important enough that they are allowed to be out and about and use some of that valuable limited healthcare res…
Additionally Covid-19 isn't super fatal, but it isn't just a get sick and whatever disease. Folks with health problems absolutely can die from this disease and it looks like healthy people can end up being saddled with respiratory issues like Pneumonia which is a bucket of fun for the rest of your life.
I don't think you were intentionally being insensitive in this manner (even barring your disclaimer your point is balanced and reasoned - it isn't unnecessarily cruel and has grains of truth). But do recall that this disease can be fatal or otherwise debilitating - I'd find it reasonable to treat essential workers, like these farm labourers, like we treat vets[1] give them life long coverage from the government for any complication resulting from their labour.
I don't want some farm worker who kept working through this to end up bankrolling Aetna.
1. At least, how we act like we treat them - America is pretty terrible to veterans.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That... I'm sorry, but that's just an utterly uninformed take. Nobody "has" to be exposed, protective gear would work just fine. And no, exposing farmworkers doesn't help to flatten the curve. The curve would be equally flat if they weren't exposed. What you just said is "Somebody has to die, let's kill the farmworkers so we're safe". You might want to rethink. What we need to do is stop exploiting them. They're not…
I'm not saying we shouldn't take all precautions we can. I'm saying it's necessary work and some exposure needs to happen.
You could bring in the harvest just fine without exposure. We're choosing not to, because it'd cost precious money, and that's the god we'd like to worship.
With the exact same kind of logic you use, one could also argue that it's not necessary work. Some starving just needs to happen. No? Not good logic? Then explain to me why your life matters more than farm worker lives?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"during this period"? They're as essential to our survival even if we're not in a pandemic. It's maybe time we recognized that and stopped exploiting labor just because it's unskilled. If we paid them by the value they actually create. I'd really urge you to reconsider your stance, and be there to help them advocate for fair pay even when this is over.
How would the value they create or "fair pay" be measured?
In short, what the living wage is really about is not living standards, or economics, but morality. Its advocates refuse to come to terms with the fact that wages are market price–determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of oil, steel, corn, or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away.
I'm not sure about strawberries but aren't farmworkers in general essential workers? Our food supply and delivery chain is what allows others to stay at home.
> I'm not sure about strawberries but aren't farmworkers in general essential workers? Yes, but that doesn't mean they're immune from the coronavirus risk. The whole point is that they face the coronavirus risk because they're continuing to work.
1) Much of our normal daily contacts is outside of work, that part of a lockdown affects everyone;
2) The essential workers encounter less people because others are out of the streets;
3) If the general spread is lower and slower, then there's less chance for everyone, including the essential workers to get infected.
It's just as with vaccination - if we get a sufficient number of people vaccinated, then everyone is protected because the disease doesn't spread; and if everyone non-essential is on a sufficiently strict lockdown (instead of classifying anything remotely related as essential) then everyone including the essential workers is protected as the disease dies down instead of infecting everyone who's susceptible.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say "increase the cost of labor" like it's nothing. Fact is, industries like this couldn't be operated on the up and up in the US- people wouldn't buy the product at the price it'd need to be sold for. I'm not saying this to justify the current conditions, I'm just pointing out that it's this or an eradication of the industry. edit: an eradication I'm totally fine with.
If the industry can't survive by following the rules then the leaders of that industry who profited from illicit behaviors should go to prison for decades and their assets should be sold off to pay damages to the effected. The industry can correct itself or die off. If no one wants a product at a humane price then the industry should go extinct in a functioning society.
Sorry, I am going to be the insensitive sleazeball here. The point of staying at home is not that if you get this disease you are going to die. The issue is that if we ALL get it then a larger proportion of people are going to die because we don't have enough hospitals. We had to choose some people as being important enough that they are allowed to be out and about and use some of that valuable limited healthcare res…
"during this period"? They're as essential to our survival even if we're not in a pandemic. It's maybe time we recognized that and stopped exploiting labor just because it's unskilled. If we paid them by the value they actually create. I'd really urge you to reconsider your stance, and be there to help them advocate for fair pay even when this is over.
Off-topic, but how did zoom become the Kleenex of video-conferencing apps? I’ve been doing a lot of video-conferencing, but haven’t used zoom. Is it the best one, or is there some other explanation?