Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#11

Post by dfsegoat » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #5

I would think out of every job in a supply chain field workers would be some of the best protected by default. Not (often) working in air-recircuculated environments, many already wear face masks and gloves, less crowded than warehouses, working in the sun and often more humid environments. The big issues I think would be sick pay (mentioned), or migrating workers who travel very far, including across borders.

I don't see a single mask or glove in the pics in this article (which documents a day in the life of a picker):

https://www.latimes.com/local/great-reads/la-me-strawberry-p...

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#12

Post by kitotik » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

You don't catch anything from a strawberry. This job is fundamentally no different from others, and way safer than for instance fast-food-window worker.

This is one of the more dismissive and ignorant comments I’ve ever seen in HN.

Do you have some subject matter expertise or was this just intuition?

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#13

Post by borkt » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #3

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

You don't catch anything from a strawberry. This job is fundamentally no different from others, and way safer than for instance fast-food-window worker.

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those conditions are not safe.

My wife works with 14 H2As who serve only one property for 9 months a year in about the best possible situation and it is definitely true that they live in bunk houses, but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1]. In 10 years of working in the ag industry though, every place she has worked they have always been documented, whether FLC or H2A. The majority I've worked with while helping out during harvest are looking for some order and steady pay to send home while avoiding cartel chaos in Michiocan; they are all upstanding individuals, some who even had professional jobs back home, for example one is a dentist.

It is very uncommon in our experience to find undocumented workers in these regulated environments, though you will still find plenty at the even city sponsored "day laborer" centers, or working for the crews that end up selling their fruit on street corners in cities. From what we have hears, 20-30 years ago there was a much larger truly undocumented immigrant issue.

[1] https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/hidden-slums-...

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#14

Post by agjmills » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #4

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

You don't catch anything from a strawberry. This job is fundamentally no different from others, and way safer than for instance fast-food-window worker.

Strawberry pickers typically work very close to one another with hundreds in the same area of a field at once, with lots of trucks as central points to put the fruit, etc. Workers also typically live on caravans near/on the fields in very cramped quarters to save commute time/cost. That could easily be changed to a more distributed method with per-worker wheelbarrows or backpacks, but presumably that would decrease t…

Personally, and I'd hope this is echoed by everyone:

I'd rather have less strawberries, that are more expensive, than have strawberries picked by someone who died as a result of contracting COVID-19 in a field whilst they were picking strawberries to earn money to feed themselves/their family.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#15

Post by stainforth » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

borkt wrote: post #13

sjg007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those conditions are not safe.

My wife works with 14 H2As who serve only one property for 9 months a year in about the best possible situation and it is definitely true that they live in bunk houses, but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1]. In 10 years of working in the ag industry though, every place she has worked they have always been documented, whether FLC or H2A. The majority I've worked with while he…

"It's bad, but think how much worse it could be"

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#16

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #9

simonsarris wrote: post #5

I would think out of every job in a supply chain field workers would be some of the best protected by default. Not (often) working in air-recircuculated environments, many already wear face masks and gloves, less crowded than warehouses, working in the sun and often more humid environments. The big issues I think would be sick pay (mentioned), or migrating workers who travel very far, including across borders.

[ Edit: I changed my mind about this comment. ]

It's kinda hilarious that you blame "conservation" instead of the farms housing people in abysmal conditions (or not paying them enough for decent housing if they live off-site).

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#17

Post by macspoofing » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

dfsegoat wrote: post #11

simonsarris wrote: post #5

I would think out of every job in a supply chain field workers would be some of the best protected by default. Not (often) working in air-recircuculated environments, many already wear face masks and gloves, less crowded than warehouses, working in the sun and often more humid environments. The big issues I think would be sick pay (mentioned), or migrating workers who travel very far, including across borders.

I don't see a single mask or glove in the pics in this article (which documents a day in the life of a picker): https://www.latimes.com/local/great-reads/la-me-strawberry-p...

I think one major challenge right now is that nobody can get masks and gloves. Frontline health workers can barely (if even that) manage with the supply at hand. I think this is the major reason for 'flattening the curve', i.e. to make sure our supply chain ramps up to provide necessities like masks, gloves, ventilators, disinfectants etc.

In a hypothetical world where there are no shortages of these items (+ publically and easily available test kits), the economy wouldn't need to have halted to a near stop, and we could weather the pandemic much easier. Hopefully, we can learn from this.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#18

Post by endorphone » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

agjmills wrote: post #14

londons_explore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strawberry pickers typically work very close to one another with hundreds in the same area of a field at once, with lots of trucks as central points to put the fruit, etc. Workers also typically live on caravans near/on the fields in very cramped quarters to save commute time/cost. That could easily be changed to a more distributed method with per-worker wheelbarrows or backpacks, but presumably that would decrease t…

Personally, and I'd hope this is echoed by everyone: I'd rather have less strawberries, that are more expensive, than have strawberries picked by someone who died as a result of contracting COVID-19 in a field whilst they were picking strawberries to earn money to feed themselves/their family.

It's impossible to make these sorts of judgments without an understanding of what the end goal is. What the off ramp of Coronavirus town is in best and worst cases.

e.g. If a vaccine is realistically a year off (which is realistic, though we clutch onto every bit of preliminary news when in reality most are failures), in the relatively near term we will start to all have to take more risks, and the majority of us will go through COVID-19.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#19

Post by danans » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

borkt wrote: post #13

sjg007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those conditions are not safe.

My wife works with 14 H2As who serve only one property for 9 months a year in about the best possible situation and it is definitely true that they live in bunk houses, but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1]. In 10 years of working in the ag industry though, every place she has worked they have always been documented, whether FLC or H2A. The majority I've worked with while he…

> but for better or worse you find this everywhere in the world, even singapore[1]

What relevance does that have to whether or not these workers should get reasonable protection from coronavirus risks, and treatment if they get sick?

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#20

Post by joejerryronnie » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

agjmills wrote: post #14

londons_explore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strawberry pickers typically work very close to one another with hundreds in the same area of a field at once, with lots of trucks as central points to put the fruit, etc. Workers also typically live on caravans near/on the fields in very cramped quarters to save commute time/cost. That could easily be changed to a more distributed method with per-worker wheelbarrows or backpacks, but presumably that would decrease t…

Personally, and I'd hope this is echoed by everyone: I'd rather have less strawberries, that are more expensive, than have strawberries picked by someone who died as a result of contracting COVID-19 in a field whilst they were picking strawberries to earn money to feed themselves/their family.

Everybody says this, and then proceeds to buy the cheapest, most convenient products possible.