Omni Group Layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#221

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

toss4732 wrote: post #110

alain_gilbert wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think subscription is that bad. Development and support is never ending. Single purchase, you also get "single development", and then it dies. At some point the market is not infinite.

I think companies should use something like what Jetbrains does with its IDEs. You get a lifetime access to the version you paid a year subscription for. Keep the yearly subscription up, and you are getting updates, getting a more recent lifetime access, and the sub gets cheaper.

That's what Omni does.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#222

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:34 PM UTC

filleokus wrote: post #76

chrisfrantz wrote: post #41

I used to love Omni Graffle. But after spending a bit of time reading about their current product lineup, I can’t stop wondering why they didn’t transition to web apps years ago. Notion, Figma and Whimsical are eating their lunch. They have a far less robust feature base, but they’re fast, built for teams, simple to use and the pricing scales well. On the other hand, Omni is almost entirely native apps, bloated featu…

I don't know if I'm an outlier here, but to me the Omni Group is/was almost like an extension of Apple themselves. Like with Panic's or CultureCode's applications, they just work in the way a seasoned Mac user would expect. They fit into both the look and feel of the Apple ecosystem and support all integrations you would expect. Of course the market for high-quality Apple only software is small. But I think they woul…

That's what they were, when Apple cultivated "insanely great" products.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#223

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #78

thruhiker wrote: post #25

I'm sorry to hear this. In a subscription model world, Omni stand out in producing very high quality one time purchase software. I love OmniGraffle! Such a great product once you learn it.

(Maybe not the point, but maybe there wouldn't be layoffs if it was a subscription)

Unlikely. A few niche apps don't need development forever. Users have finite hours in a day, they don't have infinite appetite for more features. We are drowning in software.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#224

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

chrisfrantz wrote: post #41

I used to love Omni Graffle. But after spending a bit of time reading about their current product lineup, I can’t stop wondering why they didn’t transition to web apps years ago. Notion, Figma and Whimsical are eating their lunch. They have a far less robust feature base, but they’re fast, built for teams, simple to use and the pricing scales well. On the other hand, Omni is almost entirely native apps, bloated featu…

The whole value proposition of the company is that their stuff is better than web apps because it uses NextStep/Mac UI components.

A web app would be clunky and use 2GB RAM

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#225

Post by DavideNL » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

alain_gilbert wrote: post #109

rubidium wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Single purchase, you also get "single development", and then it dies.” This is a lie perpetuated by the saas industry. If you compare saas companies shutting down “services” to prior product companies stopping updating versions you don’t see much difference. Also, sw engineers used to care about designing something well. So when you used something the first time it was occasionally delightful. Now it’s just “launch…

I'm not saying the product can or cannot be good on first release... But the world is ever changing. Let say you build a UI for database. In a few years, a new version of mysql or postgresql will be released, and you have to update your software as well to use the new features. What I'm saying is that almost whatever you are building, the development will never be done.

It's not relevant, because then the developer can release a new major version and require a new payment. The user will know exactly what changes this new major version has, and can decide whether he wants to pay for it or not.

With subscriptions however, this all becomes hidden/vague. You're always paying, but it's no longer transparent what exactly it is you're paying for. Which is obviously very bad for the user.

(Of course it's a an entirely different story for services like Netflix, AppleTv+, Spotify, etc.)

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#226

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

wdr1 wrote: post #62

blihp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also what made the company: they were originally developers of software targeting NeXT machines/OS. Their products are a better fit in the role of 'big fish in a small pond' of the NeXT and then Mac worlds. Also, the Windows world has never valued the kind of craftsmanship Omni puts into their products... it's much more of a corporate market where managers and purchasing departments decide which products win.

True, but sometimes what got you here, won't get you there.

That's fine. A 30year career doing what you love on your own terms is a winning life.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#227

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

snickmy wrote: post #61

I would love to hear more how the COVID19 has exacerbated the business down period. I naively thought that enterprise software would not see a strong impact from COVID19 in the first 2-3 months.

In times like now, new sales of premium niche software are one of the first things to vanish. Better diagramming isn't my core concern right now

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#228

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #126

Oh, man. Hate to see this. I used to use OmniGraffle for UX wireframes and diagrams. Very good software. I left the employer that held the license, and honestly, haven't found a replacement that is as fast... especially for diagrams.

You could buy a license?

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#229

Post by new2628 » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #196

new2628 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll bite. I have a fundamental aversion to paying for something that has zero marginal cost. I feel I'm taken for a ride if I do so. If I pay for a book, I feel it cost some effort to produce it physically, print it, bind it, ship it. I cannot force myself to pay for an e-book, which is a pdf copied at no extra cost. Same for digital music and software or any other digital "good" or subscription. I sympathise wi…

Do you pay for cable tv or Netflix?

No, I haven't watched TV in almost two decades, except when visiting relatives or friends.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#230

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Apr 01, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #115

devin wrote: post #92

I’m slightly confused. What about the current pandemic changed their business so much? Do people suddenly have less need for their apps? That seems unlikely. It seems like this has been coming for awhile. OmniGraffle missed the online diagramming collaboration wave, and OmniFocus missed the same thing on the project management side.

While I'm sad to hear they're suffering, I agree about OmniGraffle. I am a paying customer and I use it for my job... but if I'm doing anything at all I expect other people might need to edit, I can't use it. Because the other people won't have licenses, or won't have Macs. So I use it for a lot of quick and dirty diagramming but don't really ever invest the time to take advantage of its power features, because anyth…

The Mac solution for that is to buy more Macs and Mac software licenses.