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Omni Group Layoffs

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Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#201

Post by devchix »

new2628 wrote: post #162
dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

OK, I'll bite. I have a fundamental aversion to paying for something that has zero marginal cost. I feel I'm taken for a ride if I do so. If I pay for a book, I feel it cost some effort to produce it physically, print it, bind it, ship it. I cannot force myself to pay for an e-book, which is a pdf copied at no extra cost. Same for digital music and software or any other digital "good" or subscription. I sympathise wi…

This is the wrong way to look at this. You are not paying $12.95 for a bound copy of papers with ink on it, nor for a printed disk with magnetized bits on it, nor the electricity that powers the servers that host the transfer of those bits. This is so obvious I didn't think it needs to be said. It's advantageous for you to think of it this way, though, right? In your way of thinking, no software should ever cost anything if delivered electronically, and no more than $3.00 if delivered on a physical medium.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#202

Post by mehdix »

starsinspace wrote: post #100
riffraff wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand my friends who are into electrical, woodworking or automotive take a deep pride in the tools they own. I don't want to justify the "cheapness" of the software users, which is certainly excessive, but the feeling of ownership of a physical object is still very different from software. For example, you can easily lend your toolbox to a friend, your hammer won't ever stop functioning through no fault…

Maybe it was a mistake for the software industry to give up on the nice big colorful cardboard box with software inside it. Bought at a physical retail store, with CD-ROMs in it an a thick printed manual. Certainly gave more or a feeling of actually having bought something, different from just clicking a "buy" button in an appstore.

Perhaps we should move from "buy the software" to "sponsor the developer" idea, such as what GitHub is doing with the "Sponsor" button.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#203

Post by kevstev »

dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

Dealing with paid software in corporate america is a terrible experience for all involved.

As a user: I see some software I might be interested in trying. I have to go to generally some nameless, faceless group to get them to buy it. I open a ticket, or get an inquiry started, and they start asking boilerplate- do we have similar tools already, what is the license, etc. If we get past this phase, there is typically some kind of legal review. Maybe a few weeks later we can actually have this on our machine in some form.

From a company perspective: A user wants to buy yet another piece of software that we have to manage and keep track of. We will have yearly contract renewals to deal with most likely, understanding and holding them to their support model, ensuring they don't phone home, ensuring we are in compliance with our number of licenses, etc- this is all quite a bit of continued work. Also- how do we package this software and get it out to our users- there is a process for that as well.

With FOSS, we have none of these problems aside from the potential phone home problem, which isn't really a problem, because we restrict by default. It's just a much more pain-free process.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#204

Post by meesterdude »

I use omnigraffle every day. Recently tried to create penrose diagrams but discovered you can't create custom open-ended shapes; and modifying any of the few open ended shapes they have closes them. Guess I can't hope for any improvements any time soon.

OG is probably the main reason I'm still on a mac. Nothing else comes close. I hope they can rethink their plans and create a more sustainable & successful business. Their other apps are pretty good too. Easily the best software shop for mac.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#205

Post by lallysingh »

dman wrote: post #86
ac29 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never fully understood why we do not have the "a good tool saves me x hours, and makes me happy while doing my work so I should pay for it" culture. SW engineers are pretty well paid and companies themselves have decent margins so this penny pinching tendency is upsetting. Don't we spend on software, though? Software spend is surely in the billions, if not tens or hundreds of billions a year. As consummate consum…

Worth thinking about the number of companies globally that make a living writing software in the following categories of development tools a. Debuggers b. IDEs c. Querying Tools d. Text editors e. Source control tools f. Build systems The market for development tools does not look particularly vibrant based on the above.

Most of these started off with proprietary options that people left. These tools often need to solve lots of little problems for lots of different people, and it's difficult for companies to keep up.

But, these are all pretty easy to start for a single hacker who can recruit help to expand an open source version.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#206

Post by philjohn »

dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

Because free-to-use online tools like Draw.io are "good enough" for many people who would have previously stumped up for Omnigraffle for more basic needs.

I also wonder if being MacOS/iOS only has hurt them, in the long run, more than they'd like to admit?

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#207

Post by mwcampbell »

kevstev wrote: post #203
dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

Dealing with paid software in corporate america is a terrible experience for all involved. As a user: I see some software I might be interested in trying. I have to go to generally some nameless, faceless group to get them to buy it. I open a ticket, or get an inquiry started, and they start asking boilerplate- do we have similar tools already, what is the license, etc. If we get past this phase, there is typically s…

I don't doubt that any of this is true. But commercial software is the best way to ensure that everyone involved in developing the software is reliably compensated for the software itself (and not for some related service). The freeloader problem in open-source software is very real. If we want to make sure developers get paid, it has to be mandatory, and unfortunately that includes license enforcement and other things that we find unpleasant about commercial software.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#208

Post by zepto »

dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

I was a delighted paying customer of OmniGraffle for a decade, and looked forward to each update.

I also payed for multiple version on iPad.

However at about the point that they released their own sync service, they just let it stagnate.

There are so many ways the iOS and MacVersions could be more modern and more useful on a day to day level, none of which require a massive re-engineering effort.

My conclusion is that they have just fallen behind the times.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#209

Post by lonelappde »

mehdix wrote: post #202
starsinspace wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was a mistake for the software industry to give up on the nice big colorful cardboard box with software inside it. Bought at a physical retail store, with CD-ROMs in it an a thick printed manual. Certainly gave more or a feeling of actually having bought something, different from just clicking a "buy" button in an appstore.

Perhaps we should move from "buy the software" to "sponsor the developer" idea, such as what GitHub is doing with the "Sponsor" button.

To first order, no one donates.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#210

Post by 0xff00ffee »

dman wrote: post #82

Nothing signals to me that the market for high quality software is utterly and completely broken than this piece of news. Sad to hear this - if the Omni folks are having difficulty what hope do other small shops have. I am always amazed at the creativity SW folks show when coming up with reasons/excuses for not paying for tools - the culture around this is very saddening. On the other hand my friends who are into ele…

> this penny pinching tendency is upsetting.

I think the word you are looking for is "greed".

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