Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Omni Group Layoffs

mjtsai.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 257 posts

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#171

Post by eskaytwo »

ptx wrote: post #147
pdpi wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should look into the subscription model that Jetbrains has for their IDEs. It has none of the issues you described other than, inevitably, the recurring cost.

JetBrains products might be unusual in that the IDE is all about integrating lots of constantly changing external tools and therefore needs constant updates, so it's well-suited for a subscription model.

And for many people an IDE is something they can spend 5-10 hours a day in. I own a fair chunk of the Omni apps, but even doing the diagrams for my thesis I didn’t spent anywhere near that much time in Omnigraffle. The incremental cost of all of the subscriptions every month, in perpetuity makes the marginal choice to get another one (eg 1Password) tricky.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#172

Post by eskaytwo »

mcgrath_sh wrote: post #123
7777fps wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the subscription model? Vendors get recurring money and aren't incentivized to make sweeping changes to have major releases to get more money for the same product; consumers can manage cash flow by only paying while they need it, there is a lower barrier to purchase, and vendors have more predictable income.

The mental overhead of renting every piece of software I own would be exhausting, not to mention consistently expensive. Subscriptions come out of a different part of the my budget than purchases do, and it is an ongoing expense I have to factor is versus coming out of my funds once every few years, if I can afford it at that time. There are several pieces of software I would have gladly bought at 2-3 times their ann…

And it’s much easier to expense a one off purchase on tax than adding up all the recurring subscriptions.

But yes, the cognitive load is a big one for me too.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#173

Post by adambyrtek »

Spooky23 wrote: post #158
7777fps wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the subscription model? Vendors get recurring money and aren't incentivized to make sweeping changes to have major releases to get more money for the same product; consumers can manage cash flow by only paying while they need it, there is a lower barrier to purchase, and vendors have more predictable income.

In the enterprise space, subscription is just higher cost maintenance with the additional risk of losing the functionality to some high stakes bullshit at renewal time or spending lots of time on some rat race to upgrade.

Enterprises love subscriptions for the same reasons why they prefer leases over capital expenditure. They look much better on the balance sheet and allow to spread the cost over time.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#174

Post by uNmas »

It's sad to see this happening. I was using OmniGroup software for probably 10 years now. But, their stack was just outdated. OmniFocus 3 still looks like Windows 95 in comparison to Things 3.

Their web version is a step in the right direction. But it took them ages to adapt to a faster development cycle, and the web version is still not usable for me.

I don't see it as a subscription vs. one-time pay problem. I am happy to pay for good software, but to be honest, OmniGroup still lives in the past.

When I visit their website now, and look at the screenshots they present, boy... I wouldn't buy these tools if I wouldn't know that they are actually so good.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#176

Post by jhawk28 »

microtonal wrote: post #160
mgkimsal wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found JetBrains and .. tele.. ? (screenflow) to both be decent compromises. Well... I guess screenflow isn't a rental - I upgraded through version 6 - I may upgrade to 9 now, as there's enough 'new' stuff (and I have a newer laptop) to make it worthwhile. I appreciated it not being a subscription, precisely because nothing changed for me - I kept using the same software for a few years, knowing I was missing out…

Do JetBrains products still work if the company would go out of business or decided to undo the perpetual license? (I haven't upgraded my license since they switched to the subscription model.) [1] [1] It would probably be difficult contractually, but such things happen. See e.g. TextDrive hosting lifetime accounts.

Your perpetual license only works on a historical version. It doesn't work with any updates. The incentive is for them to continue building products that make you want to upgrade. The perpetual license key works in a disconnected network so it doesn't matter if JetBrains went out of business. You just need to make sure you have a local copy backed up.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#177

Post by TeMPOraL »

eskaytwo wrote: post #172
mcgrath_sh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mental overhead of renting every piece of software I own would be exhausting, not to mention consistently expensive. Subscriptions come out of a different part of the my budget than purchases do, and it is an ongoing expense I have to factor is versus coming out of my funds once every few years, if I can afford it at that time. There are several pieces of software I would have gladly bought at 2-3 times their ann…

And it’s much easier to expense a one off purchase on tax than adding up all the recurring subscriptions. But yes, the cognitive load is a big one for me too.

Same for me. I describe it in terms of relationship. Each subscription is another relationship with a third party that I otherwise don't care about, that I don't want to be in any ongoing relationship with. I just want to a) pay for the software, and b) use it to do the things I need done. Just like if I were buying a hammer.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#178

Post by JoeAltmaier »

new2628 wrote: post #167
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have that aversion. But regard, zero marginal cost doesn't mean 'zero cost'. There's overhead to amortize. Like, the effort to have a company that hosts that stuff. And the desire to run a for-profit company, else we'd all be at the mercy of volunteer organizations. They seem to have 'figured out' their business model already, and it involves each person copying the PDF, paying a nominal fee. FWIW

You make a good point of course -- my issue is that this amortization has become totally divorced from use. For example, a taxi driver also needs to amortize the upfront cost of their car, but the more they drive, the more the car wears down, so it is all predictable, and somehow feels "fair". With digital goods, you may sell it twice, or a billion times, what you earn is independent of how much cost you sunk into it…

Yes it seems like new rules are needed for synthetic businesses of this sort.

I've argued elsewhere on HN, that the reward for building an automated system should be, pay for building the system. In America at least, we consider the entire lifetime output of said system to belong to the builder. That is unsustainable. Imagine a future where everything is automated. There will be no need for workers, and not much further development. The economy becomes a static owner-vs-unemployed deal, and how can that survive?

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#179

Post by ken »

joeberon wrote: post #120

Unfortunately Omni's software is pretty old and bloated at this point, although I've only used OmniFocus and OmniGraffle. The former is very powerful but this is a blessing and a curse, in that the UX is very cluttered and quite intimidating. I honestly think that Things has exceeded it now, being less customisable but also capturing the essence of what makes OmniFocus good without getting bogged down in too much cus…

15 years ago I loved Omni software. I hate the term “bloated” for software but I agree it’s gotten massively more complex for no benefit to me. I’d use my old version of OmniOutliner if I could (there’s no way to run PowerPC applications on a modern Mac). It was nearly perfect, with only one or two obvious flaws. Sadly, instead of fixing those, they seem to have added a million word processor styling options.

They’re not the only ones. 1Password was also nearly perfect, and then instead of fixing the couple of minor flaws/limitations, they took it in a completely different direction.

I don’t have a great solution to this, but they certainly make me hesitant to pay for (proprietary) software. I now assume that whatever state the application is in now is the best it’s ever going to be.

Re: Omni Group Layoffs

#180

Post by ubermonkey »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #155
joeberon wrote: post #120

Unfortunately Omni's software is pretty old and bloated at this point, although I've only used OmniFocus and OmniGraffle. The former is very powerful but this is a blessing and a curse, in that the UX is very cluttered and quite intimidating. I honestly think that Things has exceeded it now, being less customisable but also capturing the essence of what makes OmniFocus good without getting bogged down in too much cus…

The flip side of it is that OmniFocus needs to be so customizable because the defaults are not great. (I feel the same about the default styles in OmniGraffle.) I was a die-hard OF1 user, but they've completely lost me with the OF2 redesign. Large checkboxes on the right stress me out on mobile (that's where my scrolling finger rests), and it took months before there were layouts in OF2 for Mac that had the same info…

Hard same. The redesign for OF2 drove me away completely; I eventually landed in orgmode, where I control everything and don't have to worry about seasonal / fashion oriented redesigns.
Post reply on HN