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A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

fortune.com

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Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#41

Post by Rexxar »

colordrops wrote: post #17
h0l0cube wrote: post #12

> Currently, the company is working to get its mini-brains—which so far are approaching the processing power of a dragonfly brain—to play the old Atari arcade game Pong I'm surprised that no-one has discussed whether these systems could develop emergent qualia, and experience pain. No joke. Are there any ethical frameworks around this kind of research?

Are only biological systems capable of experiencing qualia? What is to say that a silicon computer can't also have subjective experiences?

Arguably, computers seems to suffer when there are be computations : they becomes hot and start to breathe a lot. That's a little irrational be I used to feel a little bad when I saw my old computer "suffering" when I was younger.

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#42

Post by jimmaswell »

rl3 wrote: post #30

2015 (my words): > Obviously the aforementioned experiment would be completely unethical, but it's interesting to ponder it as a hypothetical - that today we may have the capability to bootstrap a superintelligent machine using biology as a computational shortcut. But we can't, because ethics. [0] 2020 (article): > Chong said the pair were interested in the idea of artificial general intelligence (AGI for short)—A.I.…

The human neurons are sourced entirely ethically, from skin cells to stem cells that make neurons somehow.

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#43

Post by MaxBarraclough »

Rexxar wrote: post #41
colordrops wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are only biological systems capable of experiencing qualia? What is to say that a silicon computer can't also have subjective experiences?

Arguably, computers seems to suffer when there are be computations : they becomes hot and start to breathe a lot. That's a little irrational be I used to feel a little bad when I saw my old computer "suffering" when I was younger.

Seems unlikely that's suffering, any more than petrol suffers.

Animals (like us) suffer as part of our evolved aversion response. We have an in-built capacity for preference. Current-day computers lack this.

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#44

Post by collyw »

colordrops wrote: post #17
h0l0cube wrote: post #12

> Currently, the company is working to get its mini-brains—which so far are approaching the processing power of a dragonfly brain—to play the old Atari arcade game Pong I'm surprised that no-one has discussed whether these systems could develop emergent qualia, and experience pain. No joke. Are there any ethical frameworks around this kind of research?

Are only biological systems capable of experiencing qualia? What is to say that a silicon computer can't also have subjective experiences?

That's the big question that science so far has no clue about.

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#45

Post by battery_cowboy »

jimmaswell wrote: post #42
rl3 wrote: post #30

2015 (my words): > Obviously the aforementioned experiment would be completely unethical, but it's interesting to ponder it as a hypothetical - that today we may have the capability to bootstrap a superintelligent machine using biology as a computational shortcut. But we can't, because ethics. [0] 2020 (article): > Chong said the pair were interested in the idea of artificial general intelligence (AGI for short)—A.I.…

The human neurons are sourced entirely ethically, from skin cells to stem cells that make neurons somehow.

Do we know enough about consciousness to ethically put a "brain in a vat" yet?

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#46

Post by collyw »

ganzuul wrote: post #33
anonytrary wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something cannot be assessed, then are we still accountable for the result? Or, do we simply discard the assessment?

Human neural networks definitely are capable of suffering. These researchers might be re-inventing slavery.

They could give the artificial brains a bank account and pay them a salary.

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#47

Post by battery_cowboy »

ganzuul wrote: post #33
anonytrary wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something cannot be assessed, then are we still accountable for the result? Or, do we simply discard the assessment?

Human neural networks definitely are capable of suffering. These researchers might be re-inventing slavery.

Read "The Quantum Thief" by Hannu Rajaniemi

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#49

Post by rl3 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #42
rl3 wrote: post #30

2015 (my words): > Obviously the aforementioned experiment would be completely unethical, but it's interesting to ponder it as a hypothetical - that today we may have the capability to bootstrap a superintelligent machine using biology as a computational shortcut. But we can't, because ethics. [0] 2020 (article): > Chong said the pair were interested in the idea of artificial general intelligence (AGI for short)—A.I.…

The human neurons are sourced entirely ethically, from skin cells to stem cells that make neurons somehow.

>The human neurons are sourced entirely ethically, from skin cells to stem cells that make neurons somehow.

Yes, and I'd wager the scale at which their experiment is currently operating is very likely ethical too. In fact, I'm not saying anything they're doing right now is unethical. My use of the term unethical was in context of hypothetical experiments on a scale that would make Dr. Frankenstein's stomach churn.

That said, my only point was that it's disconcerting to see these people—who are currently growing tiny brains in a vat—state that they're very interested in AGI come to fruition via way of using human neurons.

Re: A startup is building computer chips using real neurons

#50

Post by nnq »

h0l0cube wrote: post #12

> Currently, the company is working to get its mini-brains—which so far are approaching the processing power of a dragonfly brain—to play the old Atari arcade game Pong I'm surprised that no-one has discussed whether these systems could develop emergent qualia, and experience pain. No joke. Are there any ethical frameworks around this kind of research?

> could develop emergent qualia

If we were to admit there really is such thing as "qualia", there's not reason you wouldn't ask the same question about non-biological software or hardware systems... electronic hardware or biological hardware can have same computational qualities.

But since OBJECTIVELY there's no such things as qualia (the concept only exist SUBJECTIVELY), it could only exist by definition for "a person/subject" eg., in this context, a neural network large and complex enough to get close to a human-like intelligence level!

A dragonfly nervous system is probably simpler than some of the the largest artificial neural networks models...

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