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Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

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Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#111

Post by voz_ »

midef wrote: post #71
voz_ wrote: post #59

The author had a few bad queries and chalks the whole thing up to "Google Ruined the Internet". This is akin to having a bad experience with airline food and declaring that flying has ruined travel. It is absurd, it reeks of the stallman-esque style of negative, borderline luddite spew. Instead of offering a solution, this person just rants. Google has been a pivotal center of the internet - information has never bee…

"information has never been easier to find!" I think it depends what you're looking for. I realize this is obscure, but I can't find any reference online to a big Facebook Platform developers' conference that happened in 2007. It drives me nuts because I was there at Chelsea Piers with 1,000 people, but it's like it never existed.

Maybe I can help? Let's 1:1

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#112

Post by caetris1 »

snarf21 wrote: post #65
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

> The web was supposed to forcefully challenge our opinions and push back, like a personal trainer who doesn't care how tired you say you are. What does this even mean? The web wasn't "supposed to" be anything. Though I'm not sure what magic search engine OP actually has in mind and how it's supposed to work. Besides, one of the modern mysteries is that we're in the age of instant information yet you'll notice how ma…

I agree. That might be what the author and other people hoped the internet would become but money drives the development of most things. If there is such an opportunity, then strike out on their own. People talk about privacy but most people just want free and easy, not to be challenged. Each of us is more than welcome to stay in the corners of the internet that we value.

The internet is arguably* terrible today. There are about four websites that most people visit each and every day. And of those four websites, they're most likely owned by one or all of the five largest tech companies.

Before social media, people built their own websites just to put their art out there. Now everything runs through a walled garden, and to your point, it's easier to tweet than to go build a website no one will visit.

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#113

Post by basch »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #106
basch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support the author here. There was a promise of a marketplace of ideas, making the world a better place, that being interconnected would make the world smarter and democratize knowledge. All that may be true, it may be out there, but it's damn hard to find. Google, Youtube, Reddit, and Facebook all prioritize freshness. Instead of being exposed to things outside our comfort zones, we take solace protected inside fi…

What people don't like to admit is that Google, YouTube, Reddit and Facebook all prioritize market share above some odd gatekeeping ideal that people have decided an idealized internet should be. They've turned it into a MacDonald's instead of a Tavern on the Green, because that's what most people find accessable even though it's worse in almost every way. But, Tavern on the Green could not serve the same number of p…

Personally I just think google is losing to seo because google is playing it too neutral and not opinionated enough. Like facebook, they want decisions to look like math chose the answer, and not people, because they want to deflect accusations of bias. Google would be better if it were more opinionated. I go there because I WANT them to rank results and tell me what they think are the best quality answers.

Google may also be lost in an A/B testing catch 22 feedback loop, where what gets clicked gets elevated, and whats elevated gets clicked. The less straightforward, more clickbait cryptic results get clicked to see what they are. The result that spells out all the answers might not get a click at all. Ive noticed in the last year or two wikipedia not even being on the first page of searches it should be the top two or three results for.

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#114

Post by cosmodisk »

caetris1 wrote: post #107
cosmodisk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech has changed,not humans. Back in the day, Romans were happily watching gladiators slaughtering each other and all they cared was 'bread and entertainment'. Obviously not everyone, some tried to invent things,do commerce,medicine and etc. Those were the curious ones. It was a small percentage then and it is a small percentage now. The majority are much simpler people. The internet is bursting at its seams with…

You're spot on. But really... all people are basically the same. And like Google, they're incentivized by the system to be horrible to each other and/or horrible to the environment. I think people all have a choice. But I think the good choices are really hard to make when you're only surrounded by bad choices.

Human life is usually too short to care too much and we also get bogged down with stuff like work and family,so all those 'great ideas' quickly turn into distant dreams for many.

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#115

Post by anigbrowl »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

> The web was supposed to forcefully challenge our opinions and push back, like a personal trainer who doesn't care how tired you say you are. What does this even mean? The web wasn't "supposed to" be anything. Though I'm not sure what magic search engine OP actually has in mind and how it's supposed to work. Besides, one of the modern mysteries is that we're in the age of instant information yet you'll notice how ma…

The web wasn't "supposed to" be anything.

Wikipedia is what the web was supposed to be. Prior to that you had Usenet (for conversation) and services like Gopher, Archie, and Veronica (various sorts of databases). The web was meant to be an accessible front end for that that wasn't as headache-inducing as 80x25 terminal.

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#116

Post by geofft »

basch wrote: post #7
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

> The web was supposed to forcefully challenge our opinions and push back, like a personal trainer who doesn't care how tired you say you are. What does this even mean? The web wasn't "supposed to" be anything. Though I'm not sure what magic search engine OP actually has in mind and how it's supposed to work. Besides, one of the modern mysteries is that we're in the age of instant information yet you'll notice how ma…

I support the author here. There was a promise of a marketplace of ideas, making the world a better place, that being interconnected would make the world smarter and democratize knowledge. All that may be true, it may be out there, but it's damn hard to find. Google, Youtube, Reddit, and Facebook all prioritize freshness. Instead of being exposed to things outside our comfort zones, we take solace protected inside fi…

I strongly disagree that the democratization of knowledge is hard to find / that what floats at the top is the most popular, and I strongly disagree that Google is doing anything to make it so.

Imagine in 1995 asking someone whether MSG is harmful or whether razor blades were ever found in Halloween candies. You would hear fairly confident answers of yes to both. Perhaps someone would feel like checking things, and they'd pull out a book of popular facts or an encyclopedia that happily answered yes (or perhaps no) without much discussion, and that would be the end of it. (The Encarta College Dictionary, which awkwardly straddled the transition from books to the internet, had an entirely uncritical definition of "Chinese restaurant syndrome" as a real thing, for instance.)

Go to Google and type in "is msg harmful" and the featured snippet says that while some people have a sensitivity to it, it's definitely not harmful in anywhere near the amounts used in food.

Go to Google and type in "razors in halloween candy" and the top result is a Wikipedia page debunking the urban legends of the '80s. After it is a YouTube video reporting on an actual case of razor blades being found in candy this past Halloween, which Wikipedia hasn't been updated for. In a single Google SERP above the fold, you already have a more accurate synthesis of multiple sources than any single publication has. (And no, I didn't plan this, I didn't even know about the 2019 cases until just now!)

What about political correctness? There's no shortage of content criticizing either the current president or his political opponents past and present. Or, say, search for "puberty blockers" and you get YouTube videos both in favor of them and against them, an handout from Seattle Children's Hospital on how to get them, an article from The Federalist on why they're clearly dangerous, a paywalled article from The Economist discussing it, an article from NBC News saying they've lowered the suicide rate among trans kids... basically any viewpoint you want or don't want, you can find it.

It's all there.

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#117

Post by Avamander »

jrockway wrote: post #47

> Search for "GM" and the Gmail homepage ranks prominently. Is Google pushing its own products on people? Well, yes, but not here. This is an example of a query refinement algorithm at work. Google is altering its results in recognition of the fact that many people who search "gm" subsequently search for "gmail." I tried this and there are three news articles about General Motors, an infobox for General Motors, 4 sea…

I use gmail and the first suggestion for me was "GMT time".

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#118

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

takeda wrote: post #21
jbritton wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity I have no idea how to approach this. Are there indexes of websites available to the public that you are suggesting that can be searched via grep or some simple scripting? Or are you suggesting writing a web crawler to build our own index? Or are you suggesting finding curated links to sites?

I miss the time when Internet was so small that a curated list was possible (Yahoo was priding itself to be biggest curated list[1]) [1] http://web.archive.org/web/19990208021747/http://yahoo.com/

There was a post a month or two ago that talked about the design of the Yahoo homepage back then, and looking at the link again, it's striking how much more pleasurable an experience it is.

Re: Google emphasizes popularity over accuracy

#119

Post by caetris1 »

cosmodisk wrote: post #114
caetris1 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're spot on. But really... all people are basically the same. And like Google, they're incentivized by the system to be horrible to each other and/or horrible to the environment. I think people all have a choice. But I think the good choices are really hard to make when you're only surrounded by bad choices.

Human life is usually too short to care too much and we also get bogged down with stuff like work and family,so all those 'great ideas' quickly turn into distant dreams for many.

Yes, absolutely. And it's completely the right idea to focus on building a great life and family. Things will get better. People never stop dreaming.
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