Why not do a standard benchmark, perform a number of actions in different conditions and configurations, and see whether humans can react faster and more precisely with 2 touchscreens (let's level the 2 hands advantage) or multiple hardware controllers...
Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
431–440 of 770 posts
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I was trying to say was more that avionics are by nature risk averse, so if they're doing something it's probably worth understanding why. So it's not so much "it's safe because it's in an airplane", I was more going for "consider why this very safety-focused environment looks different". So sure, I might be in the wrong if what I said was interpreted as a simple appeal to authority, but I was trying to get a po…
It is very clear that the aviation industry is NOT risk averse. They are averse to losing money (via needing to spend money to redesign systems, recertify interfaces, re-train pilots, rebuy new equipment and simulators, all of those reduce risk but are capital intensive). But they are no longer risk averse. They might never have been risk averse at all - the roots of the aviation industry is exceedingly risk seeking…
> They are averse to losing money (via needing to spend money to redesign systems, recertify interfaces, re-train pilots, rebuy new equipment and simulators, all of those reduce risk but are capital intensive).
Re-designing systems introduces risk and uncertainty. Being able to leverage existing pilot training reduces risk (because crashes have resulted from pilots forgetting they were flying X and applied training for Y). Buying new equipment introduces risk of manufacturing defects that wasn't present in the working one.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not necessarily. There are many moments during the operation of an aircraft where full attention is paramount. Yes, you see a pilot leaving the cockpit to use the lavatory while the co-pilot is monitoring the autopilot, but the margins are just as small as operating a motor vehicle.
My partner is a first officer, and frequently describes his job as being a glorified babysitter outside of takeoff and landing. Worth noting that a significant amount of the information pilots use in the cockpit (at major US carriers, at least), things like flight plans, are on an iPad.
Just out of curiosity, do pilots still manually take off and land fully, or does auto-pilot / computer do this too nowadays?
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#434> the predicted move towards more voice-controlled actions in cars could eliminate the debate around touchscreens versus analogue controls in the future.
Oh yuck, voice controls are the absolute worst. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably only drives alone (or at least without kids yelling in the background).
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#435Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work for an avionics manufacturer and I can assure you most of our upcoming comercial systems (and even a healthy portion of government ones) feature touch screen inputs.
Touch screens add multiple points of failure to a device that, if properly built, would last decades. A single glitch in a software driving a screen could render useless all touch inputs displayed on it, information loss aside. I'm all for mechanical switches everywhere. As for potentiometers, sliders etc, we already have optical and mechanical encoders that hardly fail, or if/when they do, it happens gracefully leav…
Multiple physical knobs and buttons add multiple points of failure: moving parts fail and even worse, they often fail intermittently. We all have that experience. Even optical encoders fail (I’ve had one fail on an engine, and obviously consumer mice, or the connectors fail).
A modern touch screen is superbly reliable because it has no moving parts, and it can be tested. The (consumer grade) iPad touchscreen is very reliable.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#436Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…
Didn't the US Navy try this and end up crashing a destroyer or something?
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
Touch screens add multiple points of failure to a device that, if properly built, would last decades. A single glitch in a software driving a screen could render useless all touch inputs displayed on it, information loss aside. I'm all for mechanical switches everywhere. As for potentiometers, sliders etc, we already have optical and mechanical encoders that hardly fail, or if/when they do, it happens gracefully leav…
Multiple physical knobs and buttons add multiple points of failure: moving parts fail and even worse, they often fail intermittently. We all have that experience. Even optical encoders fail (I’ve had one fail on an engine, and obviously consumer mice, or the connectors fail). A modern touch screen is superbly reliable because it has no moving parts, and it can be tested. The (consumer grade) iPad touchscreen is very…
Anecdotaly, my touch screen devices's screens are less durable than my mechanical keyboard, but I agree with your overall points, touch screens can be made incredibly durable.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#438If Honda is "bucking a trend" here it just shows how much professionals, experts and decision-makers can be fooled by trends.
I speculate that Tesla made it something other luxury brands wanted too, and then those brands went bezerk: E.g. the newest Range Rover models feature multiple touch screens, they turned your AC-control-knobs into touch-screens as well, and even the once-handy controls on your steering wheel. What's the point then of still having a phisical gear shift?
I applaud Honda for making common sense an official statement again. I ditched the newest lineups of all new premium brands (also) because of that touch-screen nonsense and choosed a cheaper brand instead where it's at least just one touch device.
Premium brands still don't seem to get how un-premium a dashboard full of thumbprints and smudges looks like, even less if everything else has a piano finish.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is very clear that the aviation industry is NOT risk averse. They are averse to losing money (via needing to spend money to redesign systems, recertify interfaces, re-train pilots, rebuy new equipment and simulators, all of those reduce risk but are capital intensive). But they are no longer risk averse. They might never have been risk averse at all - the roots of the aviation industry is exceedingly risk seeking…
> They are averse to losing money (via needing to spend money to redesign systems, recertify interfaces, re-train pilots, rebuy new equipment and simulators, all of those reduce risk but are capital intensive). Re-designing systems introduces risk and uncertainty. Being able to leverage existing pilot training reduces risk (because crashes have resulted from pilots forgetting they were flying X and applied training f…
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Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
They make cars significantly cheaper to produce - both in terms of parts and construction time. Evey button you lose is a button you don't have source and install when building the car. There's less wiring, less replacement parts to stock. It's a win in all kinds of situations for the manufacturer. It's no coincidence that the company with most manufacturing issues - Tesla - also went with completely touchscreen base…
Problem of course is that the interior of a Tesla has the aesthetic sense of a consumer electronics manufacturer, not of a precision automobile. It looks like a big fuckin' iPad stuck to the dashboard, almost aftermarket. It's tacky, even if the interface on the screen is better than most. Way prefer the Mazda / Honda direction of moving back to switchgear. It looks and functions better, it can be discretely repaired…
Tesla big goal is self driving and the huge screen being the only interface sort of makes sense, if they ever deliver the self driving part that is