Appeal to authority is a fallacy of logic. It’s NOT valid logic
Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
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Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
I almost never drive by myself. Things that lock out my girlfriend from using them are very annoying to me. Android Auto does this on some features. It's not like it stops people from just using their phones anyway.
> It's not like it stops people from just using their phones anyway. I'm finding that more and more people are bringing a software mindset to cars. If it can be done wrong, we should add a technology fix to stop them! It hasn't always been this way to anywhere near this degree.
It's not a software mindset per se. It's a level of control freakery that was kept in check by the fact technology didn't integrate as effortlessly before digital systems became ubiquitous.
One can be a software developer and resist the urge to control the user through dark patterns/software interlocks; unfortunately it seems there is a type of person drawn toward software development in the first place by the degree of empowerment and capacity to control it offers.
I've always understood the impulse/satisfaction I've gotten out of writing it; but for me the end goal was writing the perfect tool to satisfy the end-user's workflow/experience. I've never been fond of using software as a means of mass coercion via "middle-users"; and when I see, or am asked to be part of it, it's generally a safe bet a philosophical rant/entreaty isn't far away.
And besides which, screw Software interlocks. If it's important enough, dedicate hardware to it, lest you feel like ending up as the next THERAC-25/737-MAX.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#313I like touchscreen controls for my apple car play, but literally nothing else.
I can adjust the climate control temperature with dash buttons, but if I want to control which vents the air comes through, I have to use the touch screen.
Same for if I want to turn on the heated steering wheel. I don't use it too often so that doesn't bug me _too_ much, but sometimes if it's cold when I start my car, it turns it on for me. So when my hands get too hot I have to minimize apple car play, select the ford app, select climate control, and tap the tiny button for the steering wheel.
Seems way more dangerous than reading a text.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#314Appeal to authority is one of the informal fallacies of logic. It can/should never be used to prove a point.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#315Solution here is generic knobs that can be assigned to different functions: Temp, fan speed, volume, for those with kids fader control :-)
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#316I will never understand how this trend started in the first place. If you look at e.g. digital cameras, they all have touch screens these days, but they also still have buttons and dials everywhere. The one in front of me has eight physical buttons, seven dials and a power switch. The reason is obvious: when you're taking photos, you don't want to be looking down at a screen; you want to be focused on the task at han…
I just got a new camera, and the touchscreen wonderfully compliments the three dials I have. They have several physical shortcut buttons to back out of menus and to get to quick actions more quickly.
Tactile feedback and quicker response time on certain actions is amazing, and just using the camera is a blast.
My 2014 mazda has some touch functions, but the main radio controls and the entire climate interface are all still knobs and buttons. The clock is separate from the entertainment screen. I love it!
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#317Not all touchscreens are same. There are few touchscreens that are good. Most Honda touchscreens are bad.
All touchscreens provide zero tactile feedback or spatial info about its setting. Thus to use any touchscreen, you always must take your eyes off the road to look at it. Thus no matter how logical or attractive or fast the display, screens are always less safe than any tactile alternative control that lets you keep your eyes on the road.
Also, for car devices that provide intuitive feedback on their activity (wiper motion, fan noise, air temperature from outlets, audio volume, etc), you don't need a screen to confirm that it has changed.
And since these devices are the ones that I change most often (and music), I'd much prefer to control them on the steering wheel or verbally, and never use a screen.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#318Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…
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Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
No offense intended, but the sector as a whole has been doing all sorts of dumb sh*t recently when it comes on-board electronics (787 batteries, 737max MCAS, A380 wiring, F35 ... everything). This doesn't exactly refute OP's point, is all I'm saying. Maybe airspace firms shouldn't be taking their design cues from Cupertino.
OP was making an appeal to authority, that avionics manufacturers know what they're doing and decided against touchscreens. So IMO it does strongly refute OP's argument. (That's not to say that OP is wrong, of course, just that their argument isn't really a valid one. My belief is that touch screens would suck for flying a plane, but I'm not a pilot.)
Appeal to authority is an informal fallacy of logic. It can/should never be used to prove an argument.
Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, Mazda were the most vocal about rejecting the touch screen trend, and Honda and Toyota are losing a lot of customers to Mazda who have been producing the best cars in their class in the last several years so it makes sense that they are jumping on the bandwagon.
Since peaking in 2015 Mazda is not growing. They are steadily losing market share over the last 10 years. They make attractive cars, but they bet on pretending that they are a "premium" brand and priced themselves out. https://carsalesbase.com/us-mazda/ https://www.autonews.com/sales/mazdas-complicated-journey-pr...
Interesting. I from what I have seen of Mazda's price range, even within a model, it's pretty large. You can get a CX-5 base for mid 20s, or the turbocharged, leather-wrapped nav-included tour package for almost 40.
The CX-5 is at the higher end of their starting prices, too. They have the Mazda3, CX-3, CX-30 and Mazda6 that are all cheaper base.
And to be sure, Mazda's crossovers look much better than Honda or Toyota - at least Toyota finally refreshed their interiors two years ago to look like something other than 2003 era.