What is the engineering hiring bar? • Hacker News Board

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#61

Post by akoumis » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #30

jasondclinton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was agreeing with you until you used the phrase "diversity hire" in your comment. I think that you could have made the same point without inferring that the hiring bar has been lowered for employees in underrepresented groups. That's a pretty terrible thing to say to anyone who is in one of those groups.

It is my anecdata, and take it as what it is. I've seen it myself a few times. Take it as what it is, downvote it all you want. A freedom of speech for everyone.

"I've seen it myself" - So you've sat on FAANG hiring panels that made decisions specifically based on candidates' underrepresented demographics? Or you're just inferring based on people you met while employed at a FAANG? Or...?

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#62

Post by christiansakai » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

PascLeRasc wrote: post #37

christiansakai wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suck at writing resumes, to the point that recruiters and even hiring managers at companies that I applied to give me a pity and even talk on how to improve my resume DURING INITIAL PHONE CALL lmao.

That probably means you're underselling yourself. Have you tried taking their advice?

Currently working on it.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#63

Post by frozenlettuce » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

Recently I had two different online testes where a good chunk of the questions were about Javascript generators - a feature that is very hard to see in the wild. Thankfully I'm already employed, but this was not the case I would lose a good amount of time studying this subject in depth (only to not use it later)

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#64

Post by southphillyman » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #16

I can usually spot the candidates who are leetcode junkies. This is why I direct our interviews to be as pragmatic as possible. Most of our question bank comes from actual code one of our devs had to implement. I'm fairly confident that if you've studied hard enough to solve these problems easier the studying just paid off by making you a better developer.

People will just game this as well. If you already know the answer to a question coming in because you leetcode all day you could easily ask a lot of clarifying questions, identify edge cases, and give brunt force/alternative approaches before solving the question. A smart person will use that opportunity to highlight their communication skills and get an even higher grade on the interview

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#65

Post by runawaybottle » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #42

gregdoesit wrote: post #2

The article could be a_lot_ more concise. Here’s what I got out of it as the takeaway: > And that helps us understand why Recursive Cactus spends so much time practicing. He’s training himself partially because his current company isn’t developing his skills. Exactly. Recursive Calculus wants a better job, (a lot) higher pay, a better environment. So he spends time prepping for this. And companies who can offer all o…

It seems like a lot of these discussions end up being something along the lines of "the standards are bad because they exclude me, therefore there shouldn't be any standards at all" (just with a lot more words).

Most of the criticism probably should be articulated again to probe whether these standards are realistically something one can work towards.

If we’re out of the running no matter how much you practice, no matter how much job experience, and if there really is this mysterious value G, with the right combination of Ivy League CS program, then I can see how these discussions mirror the notion of ‘the bar’ - that is, a forgone conclusion.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#66

Post by whiskyant » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

christiansakai wrote: post #6

Holy cow, is Recursive Cactus me? Lol I can totally relate. And I believe a lot of people on cscareerquestions subreddit and people at Leetcode forum can relate. 100%? Accurate. Also, just to give a context of the hiring bar these days. The FAANG companies coding question is no longer on Easy even on phone interview. Expect at minimum 2 Medium difficulty questions in a phone interview that need to be able to be solve…

Maybe expectations are different for senior engineers, but from my experience in applying/getting into FAANG last year, I was only asked easy/medium algorithm questions.

I felt the algorithm questions were more of a technical bar/weeder, far more emphasis was placed on the behavioral, practical, and architecture questions.

I did around a month of casual prep for the algorithm questions, about an hour after work.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#67

Post by afpx » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

sxp wrote: post #3

The section in that article about 'Defining “Intelligence”' is similar to a previous discussion on HN about whether a FAANG interview is just "an IQ test which is disguised as a relevant skills test for legal reasons". [1] This article does a good job of supporting that claim. Theoretically, both IQ tests & FAANG interviews test for whatever "innate intelligence", but in practice, both of them can be gamed by grindin…

I've got a high IQ [1], so they say. But, apparently, I interview like an idiot. Make sense of that.

[1]: And, tons of professional work experience

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#68

Post by alibaba_x » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

omar_a1 wrote: post #45

christiansakai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my anecdata, and take it as what it is. I've seen it myself a few times. Take it as what it is, downvote it all you want. A freedom of speech for everyone.

After reading this comment, I get the sneaking suspicion that your definition of "diversity hire" means hiring any minority or female candidates, period.

That's what companies mean by diversity as well.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#69

Post by cvlasdkv » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #55

dominotw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so "(a lot) higher pay" is a moot point no its not. I know ppl who quit MS and reapply later to get placed into a higher tier after they interviewed there again. Jumping jobs into a higher tier is easier way to get a raise than grinding at the same job.

Just adding I had to do this at a large non-faang corp. Just curious how common this is, it seems like the only work around to strict HR caps on raises.

Extremely common. Interviewing is a tiring and arduous process and companies have all the power. They make the bet that the majority of people are not willing to leave (esp. once they have families).

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#70

Post by bdcravens » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

The best kind of practice is the kind you get paid for. Freelance work (if your current contract permits it) always has opportunities to stretch your legs. Also, I think most companies would prefer breadth of skills over someone who knows the answer to a gee whiz algorithm. Put a different way, companies prefer someone who is valuable over someone who is "smart".