Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

autocar.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 770 posts

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#221

Post by hnarn »

chc wrote: post #188
hnarn wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exact type of input is being grabbed by these screens? "Critical pilot systems"? Touchscreens already exist in airliners, for systems used by crew and passengers, but that's beside the point.

Critical driver systems (i.e. steering, signaling, acceleration and brakes) aren't controlled by touchscreen in any car I know of either, so if non-critical systems are beside the point, what is the criticism here? Or are you thinking of some particularly extreme cars that are even more reliant on touchscreen than the Model 3?

I was just trying to make an illustrative example of why I think static interfaces are safer and therefore better, at the end of the day it comes down to subjectivity for the part of a positive user experience, but when it comes to safety the trend is, to me, worrying.

I also imagine that there are other reasons for both airliners and cars to replace buttons with touchscreens, namely that of cost instead of prioritizing safety and stability, and in general I am not a fan of that trade-off. But I'm also not claiming to be representative of the automobile market in general.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#222

Post by jasondclinton »

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

This comment is off-topic: the article is about physical buttons for non-safety-critical systems. E.g. the article explicitly mentions climate control.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#223

Post by sizzle »

CivBase wrote: post #162
hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

I work for an avionics manufacturer and I can assure you most of our upcoming comercial systems (and even a healthy portion of government ones) feature touch screen inputs.

function (buttons) > form (touch screen)

Usable inputs save lives.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#224

Post by president »

woozyolliew wrote: post #23

Always seemed like a cargo cult: iphone good; touch good; buttons bad (steve said). Let’s hope it’s a new trend! I love that my Audi still has tactile buttons and wheels, and was a big factor in choosing it. My previous car had a touch screen and it was so dangerous having to brace my hand for accuracy and stare at my fingers while driving.

I always assumed companies were drawn to it not just because of the trendiness but because engineering and general development of these features are faster, cheaper, and easier to fix compared to dealing with physical parts (e.g. knobs, wiring).

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#225

Post by manmal »

I very recently bought a BEV Hyundai Ioniq of the first Generation, and one of the reasons I chose the 1st gen was that it still has some knobs and dials. The new generation has almost only touch controls, and this feels kinda wrong. Notably, it’s not a pure touch screen, but the knobs and dials have been replaced by a lot of capacitive touch elements with backlights. When it’s dark outside, it would take me a few hundred ms to find the right button, and then I still have to visually guide my finger there. And then there’s no physical feedback when pressing.

There are other reasons for why I chose the 1st gen (better fast charging capability), but the touch elements were the last straw.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#226

Post by pc86 »

hnarn wrote: post #170
CivBase wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for an avionics manufacturer and I can assure you most of our upcoming comercial systems (and even a healthy portion of government ones) feature touch screen inputs.

What exact type of input is being grabbed by these screens? "Critical pilot systems"? Touchscreens already exist in airliners, for systems used by crew and passengers, but that's beside the point.

I fly recreationally and all the higher end gear has touch screens. Some of them are redundant with paths using hardware controls or not. But that's definitely the minority. There are a slew of critical operations that I simply cannot complete without interacting with a touch screen.

Not saying it's right or wrong but your original post is 100% incorrect.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#228

Post by root_axis »

close04 wrote: post #184
gnicholas wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touchscreens that are huge are somewhat less of an issue because tap targets are much bigger. But most non-luxury vehicles come with 7 or 8 inch screens, so tap targets are small/clustered. Layer on that the fact that many screens aren't capacitive (and instead require a certain amount of pressure from your finger/fingernail), and things get even more annoying/dangerous.

"Somewhat" is not really good enough given the stakes. You cannot "feel" your way through a touchscreen interface and you cannot rely on muscle memory. You will take your eyes off the road to see where the button is and "aim" at it. And a bumpy road just makes it worse because it only takes an accidental light touch to trigger some random function close by. Even a 17" screen or great UI won't fix the problems, they w…

I have a Tesla and previously owned a Lexus, I find that in practice it's pretty much identical with respect to taking eyes off the road. The only on-screen setting I ever adjust while driving the Tesla is the AC and in my Lexus I also make a quick glance down at the console because the row of buttons controlling AC functionality all feel the same.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#229

Post by gok »

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

I suppose you don't include the flight manuals as a critical system, since those have been touch screens for almost a decade?

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#230

Post by hnarn »

derefr wrote: post #206
hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

> The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to replace the hardware. I mean, the other point of a dynamic interface is that you can now have more controls than would fit on a static interface. Touchscreen fit-to-purpose controls might suck more than hardware fit-to-purpose controls, but either option…

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying and despite my somewhat ranting comment I am not completely opposed to a mix of touchscreens and hardware interfaces: but I think you'll agree that there needs to be a decision made in terms of safety when you decide to use a touchpad for input. If you're adjusting the screen brightness on your smart phone, that slider doesn't have to be perfect, and maybe adjusting the cabin lights for an airliner doesn't have to be either: I'm just dreading the day when things like navigational headings and airspeed creeps into a touch interface because of "convenience". But if my observation about this trend is wrong, which I hope, that separation of concerns will stay in future designs as well.
Post reply on HN