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Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

autocar.co.uk

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Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#151

Post by Steltek »

pdimitar wrote: post #135
freepor wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was never a cargo cult of being good... it was a cost cutting play that they correctly thought they could shove down consumers throats. Glad to see Honda acting on behalf of the driver again.

Not looking to start a fight but was a touchscreen really the cheaper option? I would be strongly surprised if that was the case.

How could it not be cheaper? No molds (or just one bezel mold), far less industrial design, fewer individual wires. Not to mention the QA requirements for testing buttons vs a virtual screen.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#152

Post by KineticLensman »

munificent wrote: post #91
jetrink wrote: post #15

I will never understand how this trend started in the first place. If you look at e.g. digital cameras, they all have touch screens these days, but they also still have buttons and dials everywhere. The one in front of me has eight physical buttons, seven dials and a power switch. The reason is obvious: when you're taking photos, you don't want to be looking down at a screen; you want to be focused on the task at han…

I think there's too much selection bias for this analogy to be particularly strong. Digital cameras are increasingly a niche product that exist mainly to cater to people who specifically want a the "SLR" user experience. If you just want to take decent enough photos, your smartphone's camera today is better than most prosumer DSLRs from like five years ago. I don't think today's DSLRs have the form factor that they h…

> I don't think today's DSLRs have the form factor that they have because it's objectively more usable. It's just the form factor that their self-selected customers want. One piece of evidence in favor of that is that all DSLRs do have big LCD screens on the back and often require a lot of menu diving to access any functionality that didn't exist in cameras before the digital revolution.

So on my seven year old Nikon D3s I can use buttons to focus and change the shutter speed, aperture, ISO, WB, focusing mode and focus selection point all the while keeping my eye to the viewfinder. I would almost never look at the rear screen except to check the always-on histogram if the lighting radically changed. This means I can react instantly during a sequence of shots without even thinking about the menu system. It is not just 'what I want' but a massive amount of directly accessible usability and configurability. Going into the menu system would almost never be necessary during a typical shoot.

The D850 I recently upgraded to is pretty much the same. I use the live-view screen on the D850 when shooting video but use the viewfinder and buttons (as above) when shooting stills.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#153

Post by aembleton »

koheripbal wrote: post #47
jetrink wrote: post #15

I will never understand how this trend started in the first place. If you look at e.g. digital cameras, they all have touch screens these days, but they also still have buttons and dials everywhere. The one in front of me has eight physical buttons, seven dials and a power switch. The reason is obvious: when you're taking photos, you don't want to be looking down at a screen; you want to be focused on the task at han…

Touch screens are cheap and very easy to develop for. They also de-couple the software development from the device development. It also allows updates and changes after the car is in production.

I'd like to see everything controllable through the touch screen, but then have plenty of physical buttons and knobs that can be programmed to map to elements on the touch screen.

That way, if there is a software update; and there is a new feature it can be mapped to a button by the user in the way that they want.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#154

Post by ghaff »

thedance wrote: post #103
zchrykng wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS in the camera is handy for auto-tagging the location of the photos. Which is nice for when on trips.

Thanks. I am familiar with why you want location data in photos. I am not familiar with any justification for why this data cannot be acquired from my mobile.

It possibly could be done in real-time using Bluetooth but I doubt it would be reliable and remember that higher end cameras might be writing out images at maybe 6+ frames/second. Alternatively you can make a point of recording a track on your phone (which tends to be hard on the battery life) and then syncing them up later. But, as someone who has done this, it's a pain in the neck.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#155

Post by NikolaNovak »

2bitencryption wrote: post #24

Unrelated, but this line stood out, and now I have a question: > Honda’s decision to return to physical controls will be popular with some - including, no doubt, its ageing owner base in the UK Ageing? Is there some stat showing Honda owners are older than owners of other models? Or that young people aren't buying Hondas?

I think that's just the perception/bias by the writer. It does not stand as a quote from industry source or manufacturer.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#156

Post by getpolarized »

There is a trend to assume new technology will always replace old technology.

During the Vietnam war the F4 ditched its cannons for the sidewinder air to air missile.

The sidewinder is fire and forget for the most part and somewhat of a no brainer whereas cannons require more skill and training in dogfighting.

It also gave the US a MAJOR advantage (in theory) vs the MiG.

The problem is that the Vietnamese picked up on this and changed their tactics.

Before this the US had air superiority and a significantly higher kill ratio.

The Vietnamese built 'hidden' airfields and would dispatch their MiGs when the F4 was directly overhead and engage them in head to head dogfights.

The F4s needed to build distance to launch a sidewinder and this dramatically rebalanced the kill ratio and during this time it came out to close to 1:1 with the US having a slight advantage.

They US realized their mistake and subsequent F4s had cannons...

Same thing here with cars. When the new screens came out everything was done through software but it's just NOT a good design.

When I'm driving I want to push a button and be done. IF just for safety.

When the UI locks up or is slow it's literally a safety risk.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#157

Post by braythwayt »

cameronh90 wrote: post #140
caymanjim wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great if you don't have to use the touch screen in the Tesla while it's driving, but it shouldn't even be possible to use it with the car in motion.

I almost never drive by myself. Things that lock out my girlfriend from using them are very annoying to me. Android Auto does this on some features. It's not like it stops people from just using their phones anyway.

It's not like it stops people from just using their phones anyway

By that logic, doors needn't support locks, because people can just break windows anyways. Likewise, why put safety features in cars, people can just ride motorcycles?

When you're making a thing, your job is to make that thing safe. The fact that people can use other, less-safe things does not in any way abrogate your responsibility for the safety of the thing you make.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#158

Post by hinkley »

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

Electronic Flight Bag is one of the biggest screens, right? And that's used for navigation, which is largely strategic, not tactical.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#159

Post by pdimitar »

Steltek wrote: post #151
pdimitar wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not looking to start a fight but was a touchscreen really the cheaper option? I would be strongly surprised if that was the case.

How could it not be cheaper? No molds (or just one bezel mold), far less industrial design, fewer individual wires. Not to mention the QA requirements for testing buttons vs a virtual screen.

I admit I am completely oblivious to those details. Quite interesting. I'd think 5-6 rolling dials and 3-4 buttons in total are still cheaper than a 8" touchscreen but apparently I was wrong.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#160

Post by bluetomcat »

The best "driver UX" I've ever had is on a 1995 Rover Coupe, with its dashboard and switchgear carried over from a 1988 Honda Concerto:

https://imgur.com/a/YvpSUFa

Just 3 knobs for regulating blower fan speed, blown-in heat level, and flow direction. One switch for letting/stopping incoming air flow, another for recirculating/capturing cabin air. A single on/off button for the AC.

Left steering column switch is entirely light-related, right switch is entirely dedicated to the wiper system.

Three buttons just below the dials: emergency lights, fog lights and rear screen heating.

Just the bare essentials that you'll be using 99% of the time, easily discoverable at the most sensible locations, with a solid mechanical "clicking" feedback. It's a significantly safer car simply by virtue of lacking distracting controls.

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